Talk:Art Napoleon

Sources

I've been flagged for reference bombing in the past because I tend to get overzealous about the subject I'm looking into so if I've got too many sources or if the sources are no good feel free to remove them or let me know which ones aren't good. I was unsure how to cite the filmography, bibliography, and discography because it seems like common knowledge that they exist and they can be found on well-known sites like IMDB, google books, and itunes. I was also unsure how to include the radio show so if it needs to be removed or changed feel free to do that.TipsyElephant (talk) 15:33, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

@TipsyElephant: This looks very nice! Made a few changes, hope you approve. Only one place were I think you need to add a source. Under Personal life, the last sentence..."members of The Napoleon Collective, which released a self-titled album in 2012." needs a citation. I will look at some other articles to see how they handle refs for the discography, since you already have sources in the text. The ISBN numbers work for the Published works. Very interesting article, I will keep in touch! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 08:33, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

@TipsyElephant:, sorry, seems I missed noticing that you had already added the source, for Napoleon Collective. Very sorry. Reading late at night. Best wishes, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:53, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

First sentence

@TipsyElephant: Napoleon is a man of many talents and interests. But listing eight of them in the opening sentence is a bit much, I think. For example, his comedy and acting work are subservient, or entirely a part of his tv presentations of Indigenous language and, later, food. He hasn't worked as a comedian, per se, nor truly as a chef, except as a "bush cook" on Moose & Marmalade, where he was actually an "anti-chef". I am trying to work through the possibilities, here. So, consider:

1:Art Napoleon is a television educator, who teaches about Indigenous food and language. He is also a singer-songwriter and author, activist and a former chief of the Saulteau First Nation, from Victoria, British Columbia.

2:Art Napoleon is a former chief of the Saulteau First Nation, from Victoria, British Columbia. As an educator, he has presented television programs to teach about Indigenous languages and food. He is also a singer-songwriter and author, and activist.

3:Art Napoleon is an educator, who has presented television programs to teach about Indigenous languages and food. He is also a singer-songwriter and author, and activist. Napoleon is a former chief of the Saulteau First Nation, from Victoria, British Columbia.

None of the above is perfect, but perhaps you see my point. What do you think, about condensing? It seems to me, that most of his life's work is involved in an important and successful manner, with his cultural identity. Give it some thought...sorry if I have not expressed myself very well. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 06:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think I'm going to go with: "Art Napoleon is a former chief of the Saulteau First Nation, from Victoria, British Columbia. He has used his television shows, music, and books to provide education on and awareness to Indigenous foods, languages, and cultures". Let me know if you think it's not quitev what is needed @Tribe of Tiger:. Also, should I remove comedian and chef from the infobox? TipsyElephant (talk) 19:43, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh, this is very good! It provides context, vs a string of nouns. (My apologies.) I am a bit embarrassed, but after asking you to "condense", I realize that I would also like for you to "expand" by adding sentence(s), about his most well-known works. So consider:

He is co-host of the popular cooking show, "Moose and Marmalade", and has appeared in other programs that promote and support Indigenous languages and cultures. Napoleon has also recorded several award-winning music albums.

As for the info box, gosh, it is difficult to shoehorn him into discrete categories, within an Artist Infobox. What about "bush cook" vs chef? I would remove comedian...my personal opinion, of course, but I don't think that fits the manner in which he has made his living. Your friend with opinions...Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 23:54, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks so much for implementing my suggestions, I am honored. People who have seen the M&M cooking show, or listened to his music will automatically recognize they they have reached the correct WP article. I hope they will take the time to read more about this interesting person, and learn more about him, and the good work he is doing. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:47, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

A thoughtful quote

"You've got to be a jack of all trades. It's not just one specific knowledge, you've gotta be a generalist," he said, offering advice on how to be well equipped for more desperate days. "You might be able to pull a trigger, or have a good shot, but do you know how to skin the animal? Butcher it properly? Do you know the different cuts of meat, how to take care of it, turn it into jerky, build a smokehouse? You've gotta learn many skills to survive." [1] Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 22:18, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I read this great article, (which you have referenced) and in view of the section above, it struck me that this quote describes him so well. Jack of all trades, a generalist, who has learned many skills to survive. I think this is why it is difficult to describe his life in two sentences, or attempt to fit him into an infobox.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 22:27, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

New name?

TipsyElephant Once this article is approved, as I believe it will be... I think a name change is needed. The current Art Napoleon article is a bare bones stub. I would propose renaming it to " Art Napoleon (film director)", or some such. Your Art Napoleon draft, (soon to be article), should be the predominant article.

I suspect you became interested in "our" Art Napoleon, because of his music..."Artist". But, he is so much more than a talented musician. I believe his biography requires the preeminent name, here on WP. Once your draft is accepted, I will move the first Art Napoleon article to "Art Napoleon (film director), and then we can move your excellent article to "Art Napoleon".

What do you think? Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 00:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

That sound great Tribe of Tiger! I was thinking the same thing, but I wasn't sure if I had the authority to do it. The other article is very specific, and this one is very broad so it makes sense to do the move. TipsyElephant (talk) 01:51, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Good! I know I/we have the authority, even now, to move the present article. But, I am not certain what to do about your Draft title. I have a good deal of experience with moving/renaming current articles, due to punctuation problems in the titles. But not with renaming Draft titles. I may ask about this at the Teahouse, if you don't mind. Let me know...Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Primitive versus Rustic...

@TipsyElephant: I saw the change from primitive to rustic. I'm sure I added the word, primitive, but I meant no disrespect. Since my childhood in the 1960s-1970s, I have been fascinated and in awe of people (like Art Napoleon) who could go "into the woods" and gather/hunt food. Some of this was due to the books published by Foxfire (magazine) , beginning in 1972, which described primitive/rustic food gathering and processing methods. I knew, even then, that my ancestors, even the "white ones" employed these techniques. (Although, one of my great great grandparents was part/full Cherokee.) When I was a "tweenager", visiting relatives in the Appalachian mountains, I used to gather wild sassafras roots and make tea. (The adults and kids were in awe, heh heh!) Also, there is a good following on YouTube, for people who demonstrate and practice these sorts of "primitive skills". So, from my point, this is not a derogatory word, but we are writing an international encyclopedia, and I don't wish to give offense to Indigenous people who live much further north. Rustic is a much better description...but I wished to explain my poor choice of words. Thanks, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 02:44, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger don't worry about it. I'm actually not indigenous at all and I don't live in Canada. I'm actually from the USA and my heritage is very white European. I mostly dislike the word because it reminds me a lot of descriptions of early evolutions of humans, phrenology and eugenics (which was often forcefully done to indigenous and black people in the USA), and settler-colonialist's descriptions of indigenous people all over the world. I suppose it's not officially considered a slur or a derogatory word, but I like to avoid words that might have bad connotations if I can. Personally, I feel like the word doesn't really make sense when referring to indigenous cultures anyway because their cultures were not "little evolved", "naive", "crude", or "unsophisticated" (which all come up in the Merriam Webster dictionary) but were actually quite developed in many ways that Europeans had not been when arriving in the Americas (i.e. Aztec sewer systems, Lenape farming techniques, etc). I also feel like the word implies that indigenous cultures either haven't changed at all since the arrival of Europeans or that indigenous cultures have died, which isn't true at all. I agree though, I find it fascinating and awe-inspiring to hear about people who are able to go into the woods and live off of the land. I actually live very close to the Appalachian mountains and love to crunch up sassafras leaves to smell (I've also used Filé powder while cooking, although I've never harvested it myself). If you'd like to use the word and you don't think it will offend anyone you can change it back, I actually wasn't a fan of the term "rustic" either but I couldn't think of anything better and "rustic" doesn't seem to hold the same connotations. TipsyElephant (talk) 12:47, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

TipsyElephant Oh, it is a pleasure to read your writing...you are so articulate, and I am not. The Indigenous people I was concerned about possibly offending were the subjects of articles, like Art or Quanah, and readers, etc. And of course, I wouldn't want to offend you, either! Again, poorly expressed, but I hope you understand.

Given that we were talking about cuisine/food preparation, I do feel that Rustic is a better term altogether. For several decades, this term has been popular in (US/ English based) cookbooks and magazines, and is applied to dishes that utilize good basic ingredients, and simple preparation techniques. Still, I see that this may be a cultural word, but my (dreadfully heavy print version of Webster's College) dictionary provides: of a rural area ..or simple, artless, unsophisticated. A French cassoulet, file' gumbo and Brunswick stew would be considered rustic dishes! I approve and wholeheartedly agree with your substitution of a much, much better word. But if rustic is objectionable, perhaps a better definition of bush cooking would serve. I will research.

Also agree and support your observations concerning Indigenous peoples from around the world...more later. White European: this is my basic identity. My brother and I were always a bit doubtful as to the family legend that we might be 1/32nd, 1/64th or whatever, Cherokee. By the time we were middle-aged people, it was easy to do research on the internet. He did some research, and we were a bit astonished to discover some possibly supportive information.

I envy your access to fresh sassafras. I have lived just north of Durham, NC for decades, but was unable to find sassafras in the area. I had forgotten about file' powder, but I use a roux on a regular basis! I am so pleased that we are both familiar with the Appalachian mountains. I have visited/hiked/explored from the southern portion of the TN NC area, and then up through VA and PA. (roughly). Ah, so many years of happy memories! And some funny stories, and one or two alarming incidents!

One other thing. Because I can no longer sit at a normal keyboard, I edit by typing one letter at a time, on an IPad. It is tricky and slow, using just a forefinger or two thumbs, so please forgive me. I truly value your work, and our discussions. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 00:34, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Wedding July 16th for valerie letendre

We will be getting married July 16th and would like you to be part of our beautiful day. A pig needs to be cooked but have no idea how to do it. It would be an honor if you could do it as we have enjoyed your show so very much. 24.142.14.153 (talk) 01:04, 11 January 2022 (UTC)