Talk:Anna Graceman

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Various problems with Anna Graceman page:[edit]

  1. Birth year listed as 1999 and 2000 in the same article.
  2. Missing AGT winners, 2nd & 3rd place contestants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.125.102.26 (talk) 19:11, 29 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article title[edit]

I was given the hint recently to be a little bolder in moving pages and not rely on Requested moves so much. I tried doing that here, as I felt the parenthetical suffix was unnecessary, but it said that the target was "protected from creation". Can someone please explain why? I guess I'm not seeing the reason. RadioKAOS  – Talk to me, Billy 07:23, 9 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The public logs on the page "Anna Graceman" show that it was protected from re-creation immediately after its second creation, reason: "Repeatedly recreated". Technically, it was only recreated once, but if the text truly "does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject" (the reason for the deletions), I can understand the swift action, especially given that the article was about a living person, who's also a child.
However, since then, this article has been fairly well built up with a variety of secondary sources, so it should be justifiable in its original location. I suspect a remaining problem might be the rather... youthful writing style of much of the prose (extensive phrase duplication, near-total absence of pronouns, and a tendency to add rather trivial details), making it sound like a fan promoting his/her favorite celebrity.
I've done quite a bit of tactical editing, but it nees a good bit more, including removal of promotional and fannish elements. It also needs quite a bit more and better sourcing, including turning all the bare-link references into something more recoverable when links disappear. On the other hand, the article should merit moving to Anna Graceman, even in advance of additional cleanup. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:50, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When her birthday is? — avoid posting for the time being[edit]

It has been widely reported across the Internet, which includes Google, that her birthday is August 1, 1999. However, that was called into question in October 2013 when I read a reply to a comment on Anna's Facebook page where she said she was 13 (though the entry where that comment was appears to have been deleted). Even dates mentioned in this article under Notable appearances and performances, and the ages placed beside them are not consistent with the reported birthday. Likewise, when looking at her age in the descriptions of many of the videos on her YouTube channel and the date each video was uploaded/published. An earlier comment here on the talk page said that the birth year was being reported as both 1999 and 2000.

Anna's official webpage never mentions her birthday, as far as I know, and I don't believe she's ever talked about it in any interviews or when asked. Unless and until Anna reports, either herself or through someone speaking on her behalf, when her birthday actually is through reliable sources, it is advised not to post her birthday to this article. Many sources on the Internet regarding this matter, including Google and also http://www.famousbirthdays.com, among others, have been reporting her birthday as August 1, and should not be used as citations. I've also come across posts along the way saying her birthday is in January, like this one. The fact that multiple birthdays and birth years are being tossed around is good reason not to post her birthday here, until it is positively confirmed.

--MPFitz1968 (talk) 09:22, 10 June 2014 (UTC); last edit, MPFitz1968 (talk) 04:41, 11 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So finally there are some people who are stating on Twitter that Dec 5, 1999 is her actual birthday. This guy is related to her as far as I know and he uses the hashtag #FreakingAdultStatus. Is that enough evidence? [1] That also is in line with the age she gave herself on the socials at different points in time.
--NewWorldOrder2017 (talk) 10:19, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://twitter.com/PulpGordon/status/938107311561641984
@NewWorldOrder2017: Any info about a person needs to be from solid, reliable sources per WP:BLPSOURCES. The Twitter link you submitted is not reliable at all. (No checkmark by the name means it is also a non-verified Twitter account, normally used by high-profile people as a way to check they are truly them, so we cannot use the post to back anything.) Also, from the look of that post, I would not assume anything about whether they know her personally or not. MPFitz1968 (talk) 16:38, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Also make note of WP:BLPPRIVACY. From what I've seen on Graceman's social media accounts in the past, I'm under the impresssion she is not wanting the date of her birthday to be public (i.e., no posts alluding to it or from someone wishing her a "happy birthday" on her social media), despite what is circulating around the Internet - note my above post from more than three years ago. Now, I've seen recent edits in the article adding the birth year as "1999 or 2000", which is fine. When she was a contestant in the sixth season of America's Got Talent in 2011, they reported her age to be 11, and the broadcasts she was in may serve as reliable sources. Outside of that, we cannot report anything else (and after I had made my original post about it here, I've come to learn that famousbirthdays.com, which does report a birthday for her, is not a reliable source). MPFitz1968 (talk) 18:30, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All her songs until 2016 are registered with The United States Copyright Office. The database is public, so there is the question now how the Wikipedia privacy guidelines are interpreted in this case. The database states not a specific date, but the year of birth as 1999. At least the discussion about in which year she is born can be put to rest. The databse also reveals her real name. As already mentioned, the database is public. So this can be considered as public information: Link to database. NewWorldOrder2017 (talk) 19:55, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As discussed on the biographies of living persons noticeboard (archived), the USCO may not be used to disclose her birth year, or her real name, per WP:BLPPRIMARY and WP:BLPPRIVACY. MPFitz1968 (talk) 09:23, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just to note I've removed the years too - It's clearly obvious she doesn't want the world to know and instead of digging every bit of dirt to find this info we should respect her wishes ...... I will say incase she's reading this that the info was added by IPs/Newbs - Us long-term editors respect the various BLP policies here and as such we wouldn't add this sort of info (unless widely publicised), Anyway as I said she doesn't want the world to know and so we should respect that, period. –Davey2010Talk 13:41, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Davey2010: I had thought about removing the years after my post here last night regarding what was said on the BLPN. Thanks. There are various parts of the article reporting her age at various times, which I think are supported by the sources cited; I am okay about leaving those in the article for now. (I remember removing ages from the "Notable appearances and performances" section of the article a while back, as that was going overboard.) When a lot of the US heard about her thru her run on America's Got Talent in 2011, they very likely heard about how old she was (clearly a young talent), as Nick Cannon announced her age as 11 many times during the show. Surely, that would make her born in either 1999 or 2000 which might be okay under WP:CALC (unless Cannon was reporting her age at the time of her audition all throughout her run - it's unclear and in that case it likely is WP:OR), but still, her privacy is more important in this matter and overrides any sources if she is not okay revealing stuff like that. Thankfully I reported this to BLPN when I did ... I wasn't sure whether to keep it or not (with the USCO source), but Nightshade kept taking it out (but then subsequently went to an unreliable source). MPFitz1968 (talk) 16:21, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, The age bits are fine as they're supported by sources, As for the Nick Cannon thing - I don't really think that can override BLPPRIVACY as such, For me I feel we should only include DOBs/Years if it comes straight out of the horses mouth,
I tend to use Twitter as a source for DOB - Many people have been wishing her HB on all kinds of days and months but Anna herself posts nothing about it and so I feel unless she publicly says something like "OMGOMGOMG it's my birthday, I'm x years old" then we shouldn't include it, Ofcourse had she not had Twitter then we'd rely on sources which as we've both seen there aren't any,
If the editor adds it again I'll drag them to AN3, Thanks for reverting them btw :), Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 16:35, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A YouTube video cited in the article has been removed[edit]

The link in question (taken directly from a reference in the article) concerns Anna's audition on America's Got Talent, where she performs Alicia Keys' "If I Ain't Got You". But if you just clicked that link, you'll notice the video no longer exists ("This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated"). Since the view count of the video was the primary thing added to the article, to show her popularity since being on AGT, those statements — which reported that the video received over 35 million views — can no longer be substantiated, unless there's a secondary source that has documented this. I feel tempted to remove the affected statement in the lead section of the article, and we probably will need to should we find no other references, but for now, I will dead link the reference, and tag the statement with better source needed. Can't say when the statement will be removed, in the event of no references; it could be removed immediately. But I'd say if no source can be found to substantiate her YouTube views of her AGT audition in the next two or three months, I'll remove the statement then if it still remains. I have decided to remove a poorly referenced statement in the "YouTube" section ("Other videos such as her America's Got Talent audition video have 32,114,250 views respectively" — the references, including the video from above which is now non-existent, do little to substantiate that claim).

This issue makes it all the more important to archive web pages if used as references, per WP:PLRT. But also of concern is whether that video was in violation of copyright, as in uploaded by someone who was not the copyright owner. Per WP:YT, WP:VIDEOREF and WP:COPYLINK, we must be careful what version of a video we cite and examine whether the upload is valid under copyright policies before using it as a reference. MPFitz1968 (talk) 17:32, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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