Talk:Albert Mandler

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Albert Mandler article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Israel Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Categorization : Diffuse articles from Category:Companies of Israel.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.
- Merge Nahal Rafiah (draft, heb) into Nahal as requested by Wikipedia authority

Military history: Biography / Middle East / Cold War Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Middle Eastern military history task force
	Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Death[edit]

The account given of Mandler's death is uncited, dubious and clashes with other detailed accounts; eg Herzog's War of Atonement. I propose to replace this account with Herzog's, and add a bit of detail regarding Mandler's activities. Discussion prior to this is welcomed. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:09, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Account of Death differs with other Wikipedia articles[edit]

In the (much longer and better-sourced) Hebrew version of this article, Mandler's death is described as occurring as a result of an attack by an anti-tank missile, not artillery. 2600:1700:B280:AC90:65D2:69B0:5D31:8EB8 (talk) 06:19, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. O'Ballance ("No Victor, No Vanquished", pg.157) says "an Egyptian missile". (It does confirm the '30 seconds', though.) Rabinovitz ("Yom Kippur War", pg. 351) says "an Egyptian tank shell". Bartov ("Dado", pg. 452, Ma'ariv, English edition) says "a shell". Herzog ("War of Atonement", pg. 204) says "a missile". Adan ("Banks of Suez", pg. 231 - he was in Sharon's HQ when Mandler's death was announced to the group assembled there) says "shelling".

A couple of observations:

The main anti-tank missile used by the Egyptians then was the Sagger, which had a maximum range of 3 km. Possibly within range; Mandler was reported to have moved to a forward observation post when he was killed. Without details, it's unclear if there were Egyptian infantry within 3km.
The range of variance in the reports is interesting; it suggests there was no definitive account. Unless someone actually saw his APC being hit (which probably would allow that observer to tell which it was), it's possible nobody knows for sure. (Although a careful after-action forensic examination of the debris might have been able to tell - but would anyone have bothered?)
Adan's account says the OP had been under heavy artillery fire - which a competent observer would be able to tell. If his account is correct, it was likely part of that barrage.

Since this is the English WP, it would be good to have an authoritative source in English. Lacking that, in light of all the above, I'll change it to say 'hostile fire, possibly artillery'. Noel (talk) 22:22, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]