Talk:Aeroflot Flight 821

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Flight?[edit]

Who said the flight number? Who said the weather conditions. There are no references to verify any of those. DragonFire1024 (talk) 02:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite sure how to reference in Wikipedia, but the page http://www.aeroflot.ru/eng/about.aspx?ob_no=549&d_no=11498 (translated http://translate.google.com.au/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aeroflot.ru%2Feng%2Fabout.aspx%3Fob_no%3D549%26d_no%3D11498&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8) states that Flight SU-821 was on its way from Moscow to Perm in eastern Russia chrishill61 12:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrishill61 (talk • contribs)

Undesirable side-effect of wrong aircraft pictured in the infobox[edit]

The aircraft graphic of an unrelated Pulkovo 737-500 should not have ended up moved in the infobox of an Aeroflot air crash. Use your brain and consider the implications of potential misrepresentation. Please remove the graphic from the infobx and place as it was before, separate of the infobox. If a suitable foto surfaces, fine. If one never shows up, we sure won't give an unwitting impression that some other Russian airlline had a hull loss. --Mareklug talk 06:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I just went through Commons and we have two 737-400 Aeroflot photos on file. In case someone wants to put it in. - Mailer Diablo 14:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mode of failure[edit]

There seems to be more information coming out about the crash. They lost contact at 1100 metres, caught fire at 1000 metres, and crashed, on fire 'like a comet' at a 30-40 degree angle. This suggests a fairly sudden and catastrophic fire. We should look out for more info in this area. Buckethed (talk) 11:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Casualty confusion[edit]

There seems to be no consensus on the fatalities; though common after an accident of this kind, we're still putting forward alot of contradictory information. I've compiled a list below from the sources in the article.

  • news.bbc.co.uk, lenta.ru, ukpress.google.com, reuters.fr, news.yahoo.com, Aeroflot-Nord: 82 passengers, 6 crew
  • gazeta.ru: 83 passengers, 5 crew
  • avherald.com: 81 passengers, 6 crew
  • afp.google.com: 88 passengers and crew
  • Investigator Vladimir Markin: 82 Passengers, 5 crew

This while the infobox and nationality list states 91 casualties, including six crew. I can't seem to find any nationality list from a reliable source. Since the major news outlets agree with the operator on 82 passengers and 6 crew, I've changed the info box to reflect this untill figures are confirmed. As for the nationality box, we need some reliable figures. Nigholith (talk) 15:46, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced the current flawed nationality list with the news.bbc.co.uk nationality figures, as it's the most reputable source I can find. Nigholith (talk) 16:24, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For the second time I've reverted a contribution subtracting a Russian casualty and adding a Norwegian; I assume this is due to a misunderstanding of www.vg.no's article, stating that a Russian national, living in Norway was a casualty. Nigholith (talk) 17:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No mention of a Norweigen on http://www.aeroflot.ru/eng/about.aspx?ob_no=549&d_no=11498 - this page also says 82 passengers and 6 crew, so I think we should stick with thatchrishill61 12:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Aeroflot-Nord, not Aeroflot[edit]

It is the low-cost regional airline, known as Aeroflot-Nord. Surely the name of the article should be Aeroflot-Nord Flight 821? --Asteriontalk 16:05, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved the article. If you refer to the BBC news piece, Aeroflot is stripping Aeroflot-Nord of the right to use the brand name Aeroflot from Monday onwards. --Asteriontalk 16:09, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Aeroflot-Nord isn't a low airline firstly. The aircraft operated by Aeroflot-Nord was operating for Aeroflot, SU821, as evidenced by Polet-Sirena. --Tovarishch Komissar Dialogue Stalk me 16:23, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I see Tupolev 154 stuff, and usually affiliate airline crashes have different names than mainline crashes, i.e. Comair Flight 191 - it was clearly in association with DL, but we use Comair. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Precisely my point. It should be named after the operator, in this case Aeroflot-Nord. --Asteriontalk 16:33, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Aeroflot-Nord has its own code of 5Н (5N in English) and Aeroflot has СУ (SU in English). It is not a codeshare either. It is a flight which was operated by Aeroflot-Nord for Aeroflot. The flight number of the flight is СУ821, operated by Aeroflot-Nord. As one can see from Polet-Sirena there is no 5Н-821.
OK, I see what you mean. 5N has scheduled flights from LED but not from SVO. Apologies for the misunderstanding. --Asteriontalk 16:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Aeroflot website confirms this WhisperToMe (talk) 17:23, 14 September 2008

Help![edit]

Two of my students were on this plane. Could someone please identify the American that was killed?

TAYMETOV/BOB full list is at [1]. --Tovarishch Komissar Dialogue Stalk me 20:40, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could you translate this for me please? TAYMETOV —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.150.87.196 (talk) 20:48, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

TAYMETOV is the surname of the American passenger first name Bob. MilborneOne (talk) 20:54, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When I was in Russia traveling between Moscow and Perm on Aeroflot, my surname was translated from English to Russian on the flight manifest and my visa, I believe that this is a Russian translation of an American surname. Please verify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.150.87.196 (talk) 20:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The passenger's full name is Bobir TAYMETOV (there is a string where it says "TAYMETOV / BOBIR") WhisperToMe (talk) 23:32, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I am just going to ask it, is this a possible Russian translation of the English name Bruce? I knew a Bruce that was working in Berezniki who was/is an American from Texas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.92.250.111 (talk) 16:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rewording needed[edit]

"According to controller's interview given shortly after the disaster, the crew did not respond correctly to ATC commands: they decided to go around despite the flight being cleared for landing, and it turned eastward instead of turning westward."

A rewording is needed because this sentence is technically incorrect. The pilot in command has full authority to make a decision to go around at any time, even if cleared by ATC to land. A clearence is just that, it is not a command. ATC has authority to deny permission to land, but it has no authority to force an airplane to do so.

I have no opinion on the turning east instead of west part. I refrain myself from editing because I do not have any knownledge on this accident that is remotely close to first hand. CW (talk) 16:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Discrepancies sourced to Russian-language source only[edit]

The section Last minutes of flight sounds contrary to earlier information in the article, reported in English-language media and stated in the Aviation Safety Network: that the aircraft lost communications at 5:10 local time at 3600 feet and crashed a half and hour later. Could someone who reads Russian better than I do reconcile the two? Is this section a hoax? --Mareklug talk 04:21, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yep, the first reports said it was half an hour. However later the reports changed, much due to the controller's interview. --Anthony Ivanoff (talk) 07:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Investigation[edit]

The AAIB are assisting with the investigation into the accident.Mjroots (talk) 15:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Latvia[edit]

Whatsonxiamen.com (the company that owned the plane before it was set off to Aeroflight) said a Latvian died in the crash. 68.205.177.67 (talk) 21:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Callsign[edit]

Could someone check the callsign> I'm sure VP refers to the United Kingdom per the ITU prefix. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:09, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I presume you mean the registration VP-BKO - VP-B is allocated to Bermuda which is normal for aircraft owned by leasing companies operating in Russia. MilborneOne (talk) 09:20, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clarifying. :) =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
NTSB says UK AAIB is participating on behalf of Bermuda. Updated.LeadSongDog (talk) 14:15, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sick joke?[edit]

Is it true that the pilot had the same last name as the Russian President? i.e. Medvedev? or is this a sick joke? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.91.213.131 (talk) 00:38, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • No, not a sick joke. The surname is not so rare, it means "a bear". Moreover, the crash happened on president's birthday. I think this should be mentioned in the article. --Anthony Ivanoff (talk) 19:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cause of crash[edit]

I think the article dwells too much about possible fire in the engine. This is just a preliminary version, and what eyewitnesses thought was a fire, was just the extremely bright landing lights. The most possible reason of crash is stall resulting from failure to monitor the airspeed. --Anthony Ivanoff (talk) 19:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Review & assessment for B-class for WikiProject Aviation[edit]

Checklist:

1. Is the article suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited?  Done
2. Does it reasonably cover the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies?  Done
3. Does it have a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content?  Not done
4. Is it free from major grammatical errors?  Done
5. Does it contain appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams?  Done

While the article does have have a structure, it's not linear. The article skips from describing the accident and investigation to a 2nd level heading for an NTSB investigation to a lawsuit to the last minutes of the flight to crew information...

Probably a better structure would be:

1. Flight information (including crew information and aircraft information -- where the engines were from, where it was registered)
2. Accident
A. Summary
B. "Last Minutes" section
3. Investigation
A. Who was involved
B. NTSB section
4. Aftermath (lawsuit)

This was the only problem I found with this otherwise fine article. Well done! --Mûĸĸâĸûĸâĸû 03:55, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Mentour Pilot video on the incident.[edit]

The video on this incident by Petter Hörnfeldt on his Mentour Pilot Youtube channel is entirely appropriate to be on this page, as it's this particular flight's incident, and it's very much "In Popular Culture". Cathalferris (talk) 17:10, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciated the pointers given on correct Wiki external link page location etiquette, and I have re-added the YouTube link, but this time to the (hopefully) correct external links section. Cathalferris (talk) 14:26, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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