Talk:2024 Korochansky Ilyushin Il-76 crash

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Aircraft involved[edit]

Unconfirmed rumour is that the aircraft involved is RA-78830. If subsequently confirmed, I would suggest that this is the best of the eight images available at Commons. Mjroots (talk) 13:35, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a look on Flightradar24 and it appears not to be 78830 as it was last recorded flying around Lebanon at 0700 UTC today. Aydoh8 (talk) 23:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it had been RA-78830, looks like it ~~would be an Aeroflot~~ might be a civilian aircraft, not "a Russian Air Force" plane as the article lede (and many cites) state. I did read somewhere a claim it was a civilian aircraft not military, but cannot find the source now. I guess we'll find out from reports of the UNSC meeting tomorrow. NB I see RA-78830 is now painted in grey + red/white/blue stripes, so may now be in Russian Air Force service, though it doesn't seem to have air force markings so maybe in some support service. Rwendland (talk) 00:58, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please check the rest of the Il-76 aircraft of the Russian Air Force--91.210.251.11 (talk) 00:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Russia - Air Force fleet (IL76 - 46 planes)
Registration	Aircraft types
RA-76719	Ilyushin Il-76
RA-76804	Ilyushin Il-76
RA-78750	Ilyushin Il-76
RA-76669	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-76713	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78762	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78816	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78817	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78818	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78830	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78831	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78835	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78838	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78840	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78840	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78842	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78844	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78850	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-86906	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RF-76772	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RF-78788	Ilyushin Il-76MD
RA-78796	Ilyushin IL-76MD
RF-78653	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78653	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78656	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78658	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78658	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78659	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78660	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78660	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78661	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78661	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78662	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78663	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78665	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78666	Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A
RF-78655	Ilyushin IL-76MD-90A
76746	Ilyushin IL-76MD-M
RF-78837	Ilyushin IL-76MD-M
RA-76638	Ilyushin Il-76TD
RF-76326	Ilyushin Il-76TD
RF-94272	Ilyushin IL-78M
RF-78741	Ilyushin Il-78M-90A
RA-76686	Ilyushin IL76MD
RA-78845	Ilyushin IL76MD
RF76545	Ilyushin IL76MD-M

As I originally said, it was an unconfirmed rumour. The Aviation Safety Network have RF-86828 with a question mark, suggesting likely but not confirmed. Once we have a confirmed registration, we can decide which photo is most appropriate to use. Mjroots (talk) 07:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Contentious Topic[edit]

Does this article qualify for contentious topic protection? Borgenland (talk) 14:54, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly, but let's not introduce any restrictions as long as editors are editing responsibly. Mjroots (talk) 15:05, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing anything to be concerned about so far. Mjroots (talk) 15:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

18 of the 65 POWs from the list of the crash victims published by Simonyan have already been exchanged. Sources are all from russian-state-controlled media or from Western press quoting russian-state-controlled media. Whole page is merely spreading the russian narrative, far from presenting facts. NightingaleSings (talk) 15:32, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@NightingaleSings: - so find some reliable Ukranian sources and add in their point of view in a neutral manner, thus enabling readers to make their minds up which they believe. Mjroots (talk) 17:02, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amount of POW's[edit]

The intro and infobox both state that the amount of POW's on the plane is reported to be 68, but later in the article it changes to 65 for no apparent reason. Which of the two numbers should be used, since using both can confuse people? Maksiwood 2 (talk) 17:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

65 POWs and 3 prison guards and 6 crew. So its 68 passengers and 6 crew. Some editors think all the passengers were POWs. Borgenland (talk) 17:35, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, thank you for clearing that up. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Preambule & NPOV[edit]

I don't know enough English & rules of enwiki as perfectly. But the preamble now reflects only one point of view (WP:NPOV). Please rewrite the preamble as:

On 24 January 2024, at around 11:15 MSK,^[1] a Russian Air Force Ilyushin Il-76 military transport plane crashed crashed 5-6 km from the village of Yablonovo. The Russian Defense Ministry stated that the plane was carrying 65 Ukrainian prisoners of war captured during the Russian invasion of Ukraine, as well as six crew members and three guards.^[2]^[3]^[4] The General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces stated that the plane was carrying S-300 anti-aircraft missiles for bombing Kharkiv Oblast.^[5]^[6] There has been no independent verification of the claims of either Russia or Ukraine.^[5]^[6]

References

^ Rob Picheta; Antoinette Radford; Thom Poole (2024-01-24). "Live updates: Russian military plane crashes near Ukraine border". CNN. Archived from the original on 24 January 2024. Retrieved 2024-01-24.
^ Cite error: The named reference BBC_2024-01-24 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ "Russian plane crashes while carrying Ukrainian POWs - RIA cites defence ministry". Reuters. 24 January 2024.
^ "Russian transport plane crashes near Ukraine with 65 Ukrainian POWs on board". The Washington Post. 24 January 2024.
^ ^a ^b "Russia Says Plane Carrying Ukrainian POWs Crashes Near Border". The Moscow Times. The Moscow Times. 2024-01-24. Archived from the original on 24 January 2024. Retrieved 2024-01-24.
^ ^a ^b Rob Picheta, Antoinette Radford and Thom Poole (24 January 2024). "Live updates: Russian military plane crashes near Ukraine border". CNN. Retrieved 24 January 2024.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

『Shiro Neko』^Обг. 19:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that communication coming from Ukrainian authorities is inconsistent and self-contradictory, and their story has already changed several times since you posted this. Additionally, air crashes don't routinely require any sort of "independent verification" – the investigating country is normally assumed to provide reliable information. — kashmīrī ^TALK 00:52, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please add a section on violations of international humanitarian law[edit]

The Il-76 aircraft is military and belongs to the Armed Forces of Russia, and therefore is a legitimate military target for the Armed Forces of Ukraine and is subject to unconditional destruction.
Russia uses the civilian Belgorod International Airport for military purposes. It is strictly forbidden to set up military bases and facilities within densely populated areas.
It is forbidden to use the airspace to transport prisoners of war over the territory and near the zone of hostilities.
Russia's use of "Human shields" to transport weapons

91.210.251.11 (talk) 20:11, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:NOR. Mellk (talk) 10:25, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re. 1. I doubt anyone questions that.

Re. 2. The airport is not located "within a densely populated area", and anyway the airport wasn't targeted, so your point is moot.

Re. 3. Source? Certainly not in the wikilink you posted.

Re. 4. Source that this has ever happened with POWs and that this was the case also here? — kashmīrī ^TALK 23:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Flight origin & Destination[edit]

Can someone check validity of flight origin and destination. It says: from Moscow to Belgorod but the flight direction was opposite; from Belgorod to north (Moscow). The flight direction can be verified from the crash video (geolocated). This also challenges the claims of prisoners onboard since. 130.233.65.150 (talk) 07:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Russia blocks the ICRC or neutral countries from entering the process of negotiations and exchanges, there is no independent objective monitoring, and therefore the article consists exclusively of the statements of Russia and Ukraine. Therefore, it is not a mistake to indicate in the article that the only video circulating on the Internet shows how the plane descends from west to east. This is the only thing that is known today --91.210.251.11 (talk) 10:17, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also wondering what POWs were doing in Iran. Jules TH 16 (talk) 18:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The FR24 page shows a different aircraft. See the first thread on the page. — kashmīrī ^TALK 20:20, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huge POV issues[edit]

Wikipedia is so bad rn. There weren't any POWs on the plane look up footage of the crash site there are only 2-3 bodies. The plane was geolocated as heading away from Ukraine, not the direction for a prisoner exchange. It was also tracked as being in Iran only hours prior, not something you do for a prisoner exchange. And half the prisoners on the list were traded on the 3rd of january. This page is seeing the most views it will probably ever get right now and you people are pushing a disgusting Russian narrative because "NPOV". Neville Chamberlain was NPOV. Quit being such wimps and tell the truth. 2600:8807:5483:8B00:3C58:C5C7:BA54:E05 (talk) 02:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As has been said above, find RSs that support alternative points of view and add the alternative viewpoint in a neutral manner. We can only use what is reported. Mjroots (talk) 17:14, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Video of higher quality, for replacement[edit]

Ucraniano2 (talk) 09:47, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First an explosion, then a siren[edit]

Several eyewitness described hearing loud, thunderous claps at the time of the crash, followed by an air raid alert in the Russian city.
“We heard one or two loud bangs. With an interval of a minute or less. The second bang was much louder. We all ran out to see if someone needs help, but the crash was further away after the village. It was very loud and scary,” one woman told Russian state media RIA Novosti.
“We heard three claps. The claps were loud enough, and we thought that either something had fallen somewhere here, or that missiles had been shot down in the air. Then right after that, the guys in my class began to say that air raid alert went off in Belgorod, the sound of a siren,” said one young man."

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/24/europe/russian-military-plane-crash-belgorod-intl/index.html

It is obvious that the plane did not fall at 0 11:15, but earlier Ucraniano2 (talk) 10:03, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest making clarifications to the article: After the crash, an air alert was briefly announced in the Belgorod Oblast (11:12 – 11:43 MSK) --Ucraniano2 (talk) 10:14, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 January 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change "stated" to "alleged." The information is not verified yet and it makes the whole page look questionable. SamRuck (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: see MOS:ALLEGED. — kashmīrī ^TALK 15:49, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Rob Picheta; Antoinette Radford; Thom Poole (2024-01-24). "Live updates: Russian military plane crashes near Ukraine border". CNN. Archived from the original on 24 January 2024. Retrieved 2024-01-24.

[BBC_2024-01-24-2] Cite error: The named reference BBC_2024-01-24 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[3] "Russian plane crashes while carrying Ukrainian POWs - RIA cites defence ministry". Reuters. 24 January 2024.

[4] "Russian transport plane crashes near Ukraine with 65 Ukrainian POWs on board". The Washington Post. 24 January 2024.

[Moscow_Times-5] "Russia Says Plane Carrying Ukrainian POWs Crashes Near Border". The Moscow Times. The Moscow Times. 2024-01-24. Archived from the original on 24 January 2024. Retrieved 2024-01-24.

[CNN-6] Rob Picheta, Antoinette Radford and Thom Poole (24 January 2024). "Live updates: Russian military plane crashes near Ukraine border". CNN. Retrieved 24 January 2024.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

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