Category talk:Nazi Party officials

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Discrimination

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Categories[edit]

Kierzek has added articles to this category when those articles are already in the category's more specific subcategories. It is redundant and excessive to add them to both the main category and the more specific subcategory that they perfectly fit the criteria of. They belong in the subcategories and that is it.

Some of these articles include: Heinrich Himmler, Reinhard Heydrich, Hermann Goering, Joseph Goebbels.Hoops gza (talk) 12:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hoops, if the criteria was only the ambiguous argument of a possible redundant nature, one could go to the list of anyone on "Nazi Leaders", including Hitler, and say there are redundant cats of some sort, therefore, they should be removed; the query is: does it help the general reader and does that person meet the cat according to sources given in their article. The men listed meet the cat better than many others on there now, such as, Rudolf Diels, for example. And it should be noted, I now see, that the Service record of Reinhard Heydrich is already on there. So Heydrich has already been accepted on there, without objection, for a long time. Now, if one wanted to take off his "Service Record" from the cat as redundant, I can see that as reasonable. Otherwise, all meet the meets the criteria for the cat, per their cited, source articles. Kierzek (talk) 13:21, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have corrected Diels, I doubt there are many others if any. Excepting Diels, there was no redundancy within this category/subcategory system until you began tagging articles that already were in a specific subcategory with the main category tag. I think that you fail to grasp the concept of subcategories. All of the people listed in the subcategories are considered Nazi leaders by virtue of being subcategories of the category "Nazi leaders". This is not a matter of belonging to a certain set of criteria, it is a matter of categorizing hundreds of Nazis in the most organized way possible. Of course Heydrich was a Nazi leader, but more specifically he was a "Nazi leader assassinated by the Allies". Subcategories are not a hierarchy system of the main category. It's not as though being a "Nazi Germany minister" is somehow not a Nazi leader. Quite the contrary, in fact, "Nazi Germany ministers" are a specific type of Nazi leader.Hoops gza (talk) 13:32, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The service record of Heydrich is not a person, so that was a mistag, I have removed it from the category.Hoops gza (talk) 13:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

By the way it looks to me like you misread someone as Diels. It looks like he was only in the "Nazi leaders" cat.Hoops gza (talk) 13:35, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no policy or guidance anywhere on this site which states an article may only be in one category and if that category is a sub of another, nothing against having the person in multiple places. The underlying guidance is what will be easiest for the reader to understand. I will say though that creating, listing, and operating categories is a very complex topic and one which should be handled with care due to enormous amount of work which requires fixing incorrectly listed categories or improperly marked articles. I would say, as a general rule to ANY interested party, to discuss major category change in a forum before one makes them. -OberRanks (talk) 14:15, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is my point, there is no "bright line test"; especially when it comes to a few, certain individuals, it does not work. I believe criteria and guidance for general readers is important. Remember this is suppose to be for general readers as an encyclopedia; written on an 8th grade level. Kierzek (talk) 14:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but this category was already very well organized with no redundancies. I will say that the process of having discrete and well defined subcategories is usually much more easily sought with articles on persons, as opposed to articles on other topics. I think that whenever possible it is best to avoid redundancies and to try to have a system where everything is listed once while retaining easy access for the reader.Hoops gza (talk) 14:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is pretty clear for someone like Heydrich. He was a Nazi leader, who was assassinated, ergo it is clear enough to just list him in "Nazi leaders assassinated by the Allies" and not Nazi leaders. Well I did not know that it is supposed to be at an eighth grade level. I think that most of the accepted content on here for important topics is contributed by people in college or beyond.Hoops gza (talk) 14:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lets look at Himmler, for example. One could argue redundancies in a broad sense even if not in a sub of main, for he is in: German military personnel who committed suicide, Nazis who committed suicide in prison custody, German politicians who committed suicide, Suicides by poison, German people who died in prison custody. But, I have made my case and said enough.

BTW, I agree "...that most of the accepted content on here for important topics is contributed by people in college or beyond", but we all must remember WHO overall we are writing for-the general reader. Kierzek (talk) 14:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hoops gza, you removed the cats without obtaining needed consensus. This even after the above discussion. Stop edit warring. I have put them back in place. I also checked other main and sub cats and there are others that have overlap of people so it is something that is accepted when reasonable to the situation and article. Kierzek (talk) 02:32, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes indeed. There is absolutely no consensus for these removals. If this goes on, it will most likely draw attention from admins as an active edit war. Stop now. -OberRanks (talk) 03:59, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]