Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America/Archive 26

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Archive 26

Discussion about Native in the lead

There is a discussion taking place at Talk:Lily Gladstone#Request for comment on Native in the lead that this Wiki-project may be interested in. --ARoseWolf 13:40, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of Senedo people for deletion

I nominated Senedo people for deletion, if anyone cares to weigh in at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Senedo people. Yuchitown (talk) 21:02, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown

Category renaming discussion

A discussion is taking place at CfD that this Wiki-project may be interested in. --15:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC) ARoseWolf 15:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Not to get in a long discussion but what would you suggest as the wording, Yuchitown? Btw, I agree the wording is odd as it is. --ARoseWolf 15:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Seeing the other's editor's link to WP:INDIGENOUS, I'll just use that link moving forward. Yuchitown (talk) 21:02, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown

I had that in my speedy nomination. It was completely disregarded so I brought it to full discussion. --ARoseWolf 12:09, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for doing that. Yuchitown (talk) 14:55, 18 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown

Merge proposal/discussion of Fort Albany First Nation history section

Hoping to get some more input on the discussion at Talk:Fort Albany First Nation#Merge proposal - it began as a proposal to merge the stub Battle of Fort Albany (1693), and has led to some discussion about how Wikipedia should address shared European colonial and Indigenous history. I feel it may have implications for other articles on First Nations. James Hyett (talk) 15:24, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Anyone want to check the actual numbers of the Osage Nation?

Lead:The tribe has about 16,000 members. Further down In the 21st century, the federally recognized Osage Nation has approximately 20,000 enrolled members Doug Weller talk 11:20, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of Wolastoq for deletion

Editors are welcome to give their input at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wolastoq. I commented that the article should be rewritten to include Native history and the response is that is a "land acknowledgment" and isn't allowed on Wikipedia per Talk:Coquitlam#RfC_about_First_Nations_land_acknowledgement.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 22:46, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

There's a lot of vitriol over there. So far, I have the only "keep" vote. Yuchitown (talk) 14:57, 19 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown

Merged to Saint John River. You know this of course, just for the record. Doug Weller talk 11:21, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

List of Native Americans of the United States

An editor has twice mass-removed notable entries from List of Native Americans of the United States. I attempted to restore the entries [1] but was reverted by this editor in their second mass-removal [2]. This may be of interest to this Wikiproject. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 17:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Many of the people this person has removed are notable and have many sources in their respective article. I don't know what exactly their issue is with it. They even removed highly notable figures like Deb Haaland, Tecumseh, Sequoyah, and many more notable and easily verifiably Native figures. PersusjCP (talk) 18:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I’ve given them a warning for disruptive editing. If they continue I suggest going to ANI. Doug Weller talk 19:01, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

PersusjCP, my concern is not about the notability of these people but rather the verifiability of their belongingness to the group. Adding unsourced entries to such lists isn't a healthy practice. There is always a strong possibility that some editors put wrong entries. As such lists become exceedingly large with unsourced entries, it becomes more difficult to scrutinize them. I am adding unsourced section templates for now. Dympies (talk) 00:59, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Should definitely be sourced WP:LISTVERIFY..... but that said it shouldn't be hard to transfer over some sources from main articles over blanking. Moxy- 03:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

California Rancherias Terminated by Act of 1958

Details = 1988Mishewal-Wappo begin reorganization and apply for re-recognition under the leadership of John Trippo https://www.suscolcouncil.org/about-us/firstpeopleshistory/

In 2009, the tribe filed for federal restoration. On 25 July 2013 a hearing was held in San Jose, California in the federal court of U.S. District Court Judge Edward Davila. The claim was denied citing that the statute of limitations was exceeded. John Trippo family (talk) 03:54, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Indigenous tattooing

Hi all, I'm considering splitting History of tattooing into a separate article on indigenous and traditional tattooing practices. Given the size of the article, it doesn't feel very readable and I think having a separate page would allow people to expand on the contemporary practices of these traditions. I'm alerting some of the WikiProjects attached to the article; please let me know if you have any concerns or objections to this idea :) ForsythiaJo (talk) 03:27, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Puyallup people#Requested move 21 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Puyallup people#Requested move 21 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:27, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Official name of federally-recognized tribes?

This isn't exactly related to editing, but I was curious: what exactly is the official name of a federally-recognized tribe? For example: I was editing Puyallup Tribe of Indians and, as I understood Puyallup Tribe of Indians to be their official name, changed it at List of federally recognized tribes in the contiguous United States and List of federally recognized tribes by state. I was informed by @Yuchitown that in fact, Puyallup Tribe of the Puyallup Reservation is the name listed on the Federal Registrar, which when I checked to confirm, was true. However, the name used in their constitution is "Puyallup Tribe of Indians," and their reservation is the "Puyallup Indian Reservation" (They also use Puyallup Tribe of the State of Washington once in the name of the constitution). This naturally brings me to the question, what exactly is the "official" name?

In regards to the Puyallup Tribe, the preamble of their constitution states: "We the Indians of the Puyallup Tribe of the Puyallup Reservation of the State of Washington, in order to establish a legal tribal organization and secure certain privileges and powers offered to us by the Indian Reorganization Act of June 18, 1934, do hereby form an authorized tribal council, and ordain and establish this constitution and bylaws as a guide to its deliberations." This is what seems like the origin of the Federal Registrar's name. However, elsewhere in the constitution, the legal entity established by the constitution is called the "Puyallup Tribe of Indians" in full and "Puyallup Tribe" for short. This naming scheme is also used on their website, official communiques, seal, and more. I noticed a similar pattern in a few other constitutions I looked at.

To me, it seems like the preamble is more of an opening clause (who would've thought) whereas the actual articles define the name of the legal entity and the reservation themselves. I'm not a treaty lawyer so I don't really have any formal knowledge about this, anyways. I'm of course not looking to argue since I understand the reason for having the list match the federal registrar, and I think that makes sense, but just for determining the "official" name of a tribe/what to use in articles in the future, I wanted to bring this up for other peoples' opinions/thoughts, and if I am correct in my understanding. Also, why might the Federal Registrar differ so significantly and with so many cases? I assume the tribes themselves submitted that name at one point? Naming like this seems to be a phenomenon in the US, I mean, look at the US Constitution where there is also not an "official" name of the country and, to this day, United States and United States of America are used fairly interchangeably. PersusjCP (talk) 06:01, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:COMMON NAME is usually used instead of the official name, if they are different. Like Minneapolis is officially "City of Minneapolis" but that's not the article title. I would say go with the common name and list out the "legal names" somewhere else in the article. (Even the article title United States isn't the more exact "United States of America").  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 06:49, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

The list of federally recognized tribes always goes verbatim by what the current year’s Federal Registrar says, with redirects pointing to the article. Like oncamera says, articles go by common name. Yuchitown (talk) 17:52, 24 February 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown

Manifest Destiny

I suggest some eyes on Manifest Destiny. --David Tornheim (talk) 00:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)