Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Manuel Noriega/archive1

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

No consensus to promote at this time - Peacemaker67 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 03:20, 26 February 2020 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Manuel Noriega[edit]

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Nominator(s): Vanamonde93 (talk)

Manuel Noriega (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Manuel Noriega was a military strongman in Panama for quite a while, and a large player in Central American politics of the time. The article underwent a thorough GA review from Midnightblueowl. I've been fairly thorough with respect to ferreting out biographical detail, but the source material here is fragmentary and self-contradictory, so it's possible it needs some polishing. All comments are welcome. Vanamonde (Talk) 07:45, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

Overall I think a good range of sources are included. I was going to say that it would be good to see more Spanish-language sources, although my search turned up very little in that regard. There have been some legal articles written about issues resulting from his capture and trial, but that aspect probably has more to do with the law than Noriega himself. This paper may have some additional sources that could be helpful if you're headed to FAC. Spot checks not done because of the nominator's history of successful A-class submissions.

Print
  • Verso Books needs location
    I have dropped locations altogether; I've looked into this question a little recently, and have come to the opinion that it is no longer helpful in improving verifiability. The critical piece is the publisher.
  • Roberts book needs location
    As above.
  • Be consistent about New York/New York City and including the country or not
    As above.
  • Gilboa source needs specific page numbers for each citation. The easiest way to do this would be putting it in the bibliography and citing as a print source.
    I'll work on this, but I will note that I recall getting articles through FAC without giving page numbers for journal articles (which, as they focus on a very specific subject, often spread detail relevant to a single paragraph in Wikipedia over a large page span).
  • Be consistent when citing books: put them all in the bibliography or use {{rp}} on all of them. (I would suggest moving Gill, Pastor, Koster, and Roberts to the bibliography).
    I tend to divide things by whether I have used multiple page ranges or not, so as to minimize the number of clicks needed to get to the source; but if you feel strongly I can fix this.
  • Koster is lacking page numbers for some cites.
  • Print sources all look OK for reliability
Web
  • One article by Tran, Mark is in multiple footnotes. Should be combined.
    Fixed.
  • "One of the large financial institutions that he was able to use to launder money was the Bank of Credit and Commerce International." Should be cited to a source other than the Dukakis campaign
  • I'm skeptical of the reliability of the "Conversion of General Manuel Noriega". Looks self-published to me.
    Agreed. That source predates my involvement here, but I ought to have caught it. Removed, and paragraph rewritten with better source.
  • Suggest removing The Sun, as it was deprecated. The content is supported by the other two sources.
    Already handled by another editor.
  • Other sources look OK.

buidhe 11:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by PM[edit]

This article is in good shape. I note that it is not organised in a strictly chronological manner, but I think it works nevertheless. I have come comments:

  • in the lead, not all forces backed by the US were counter-insurgency forces. Some were the insurgents, like the Contras in Nicaragua. Suggest dropping "counter-insurgency".
  • United States invasion of Panama is linked twice in the lead
  • in the lead, there needs to be an explanation of what happened to him between the end of his US sentence and his extradition to France
  • suggest expanding the infobox with relevant parameters such as nickname, criminal_charges and criminal_penalty
  • is anything available on the foreign or domestic awards he received other than the French LoH?
  • his full name should be at the beginning of Early life and family and cited, and I suggest also including the date of birth and why the one in the lead is given along with the cited note from the lead. You can then drop the note from the lead.
  • link tuberculosis as it is fairly rare in developed countries these days
  • suggest ordering [5][3]
  • suggest decapping Socialist in "During his time in the Socialist youth group" unless Socialist youth group is the proper name of the organisation, in which case initial cap all
  • I'm not up on Spanish name formalities, but was his wife's name "Felicidad Sieiro de Noriega" before marriage?
  • Siero→Sieiro
  • move the link for Panama National Guard to first mention in the Early life and family section
  • link second lieutenant
  • Major→major and link
  • when mentioning Arias for the first time, include that he was a candidate of the Panameñista Party
  • when mentioning Chiari, mention that he was from the National Liberal Party
  • "he received a promotion in 1966" to first lieutenant?
  • move the link to military intelligence to first mention of intelligence
  • "In 1967 the administration" was this the CIA, State Department or the actual office of the president?
  • "during his Presidency" decap, but also doesn't it say later that he avoided actually being president?

Down to Rise to power. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:55, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Arnulfo Arias→Arias, as he has been introduced already
  • "sending much of its staff" suggest "many of its senior officers" if that is correct?
  • is "When Arias's supporters launched a guerrilla uprising in his home province, Noriega as the head of intelligence played an important role in putting it down within a year" out of place chronologically? We soon hear of his promotion and elevation to this job
  • do we known when Noriega was promoted to captain?
  • can you add the role of Galván (ie writer/author/journalist) and his first name?
  • suggest "allowing him to blackmail them later."
  • is there an article about the bombings? Were they in US territory in Panama or in the US itself?
  • link 1976 United States presidential election
  • "thrown from a helicopter"
  • perhaps state that Managua is the capital of Nicaragua
  • I think the Head of intelligence section would benefit from being organised chronologically. It jumps around a fair bit and is hard to follow. Perhaps start off with the general non-chronological staff and then go through the material chronologically?

Down to Death of Torrijos. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:27, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Noriega also arranged for weapons shipments purchased in the U.S." to whom?
  • Jimmy Carter is linked twice
  • "full Colonel"→"full colonel" perhaps link colonel
  • "Among the steps he took to consolidate his control was to bring the various factions of the army together into the PDF" but we have already established he created the PDF, and do you mean the National Guard, or was the army a different organisation?
  • "newly appointed a Ggeneral"
  • "was used by Noriega as a political front for the National Guard" do you mean PDF here? There are other instances of using National Guard after the point the PDF was created
  • For Panamanian Congress, would a link to National Assembly (Panama) be appropriate? Also just checking if it should be referred to as the National Assembly?

Down to Drug and weapons operations. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:40, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "In addition to drug smuggling..." but we have already been introduced to his involvement in money laundering. Reword?
  • "the Colombian cartel" which one?
  • "The U.S. intelligence service" which one?
  • link Spy ship
  • US Vice President George Bush→Bush, now U.S. vice president,
  • "to train soldiers in Panama" whose soldiers?
  • 1991–92→1991–1992 per MOS:DATERANGE
  • "Kempe suggested $110,000 annually" over what period?
  • "CIA director William Webster would nonetheless described Noriega as an ally"
  • "Vice President (and former CIA Director) George H. W. Bush"→"Vice President Bush" as we've already established his first name and his CIA role

Down to Murder of Spadafora and aftermath. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:33, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Torrijo's→Torrijos'
  • "and announced his intent to return to Panama to oppose him" but we have already learned he returned to Panama in 1981? The timeline here isn't clear, did Spadafora return to Panama, leave and come back? If so, when was he killed?
  • suggest "His decapitated body was later found wrapped in a United States Postal Service mail bag and showing signs of brutal torture."
  • suggest "While visiting New York City later in September, Barletta announced his intention to appoint an independent commission to investigate the murder." also, and related to the timeline issue above, September of what year?
  • "Upon his return to Panama, however, he stepped down"
  • FDP→PDF
  • "While Noriega was out of the country"? Where was he?
  • "assigned Herrera"→"assigned Diaz Herrera" as a Balbina Herrera comes up later. There are a few more of these in this para.
  • "The Senate resolution" which resolution?
  • suggest "However, though the U.S. considered not recognizing Delvalle as president, the state department decided against it, as it would have amounted to breaking relations with Noriega."

Down to 1989 election. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:25, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "other intelligence services"? Cuba, but any others?
  • suggest "Multiple U.S. agencies continued to investigate Noriega"
  • army Ccolonel
  • Was there more than one presidential election in 1989? "The presidential elections of May 1989 were"→"The presidential election of May 1989 was"
  • "by the PDF soon emerged"
  • Catholic Bbishops, and link Roman Catholic Church
  • suggest consistency between 3-to-1 and 2–1
  • wasn't Marcos Gregorio McGrath the Archbishop at this point? If so, link Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Panamá
  • "Noriega had initially planned"
  • "When the 1984–1989"
  • Defense Forces→PDF

Down to U.S. invasion of Panama. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:27, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "killing of the Mmarine"
  • "lighter assaults using fewer troops" is a weird phrase. Reword?
  • Suggest a sentence explaining what sites were targeted by the US forces, followed by the info about the private vehicles
  • link land mine
  • the US troops killed figure is a bit vague. Surely there are sources that definitively state the US casualties, even if the PDF ones are unclear?
  • generally put the citations in numerical order ie [113][2]→[2][113]
  • Overall, the invasion would cause→Overall, the invasion caused
  • with Noriega's ally Jorge Krupnick→with his ally Jorge Krupnick
  • link nuncio
  • to attempt to dislodge himNoriega

Down to Prosecution and imprisonment. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:48, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • link Arraignment
  • link money laundering at first mention in the body
  • link RICO Act for racketeering
  • Floyd Carlton→Carlton
  • "Federal Detention Center, Miami, facility"
  • Noriega resided in→Noriega was assigned to
  • His cell had beenwas nicknamed
  • link extradition
  • after he was convicted of money laundering in absentia in 1999 and drop the later mention of in absentia
  • but French law requiresd a new trial

Down to Return, illness, and death. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:18, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • suggest "Panama made an extradition request to France so that Noriega could..."
  • "On September 23, 2011, United States and a French court" what was the involvement of the US at this stage? Surely it was purely a French decision at this point?
  • suggest Hospital Santo Tomas→Hospital Santo Tomás and state that it is in Panama City
  • "that Noriega washad been diagnosed"
  • Santo Tomas hospital→Hospital Santo Tomás and drop "in Panama City"
  • "for involvement in drug smuggling" as he was involved in arms smuggling as well
  • suggest "after his indictment byin the U.S."
  • "the nickname "Pineapple Face" could you explain why when it is first mentioned, and also who called him that, then drop the info provided later about the Panamanians calling him that?

Phew. Got there in the end. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:40, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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