Wikipedia:Peer review/Julia Margaret Cameron/archive1

Julia Margaret Cameron

I've listed this article for peer review because I have made substantial improvements in the last few months largely on my own and am looking for another set of eyes on it.

Thanks, Qono (talk) 02:22, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley

This is a splendid article, with the potential for GA and even FA, I think. It's a substantial piece and will take me two or three goes to deal with it. These comments are down to the end of the Biography sections.

• Lead

• "one of the most significant portraitists" – I'd be cautious with "significant". I agree with Plain Words: "This is a good and useful word, but it has a special flavour of its own and it should not be thoughtlessly used as a mere variant of important, considerable, appreciable, or quite large." My rule of thumb is to ask "what did it signify?" and unless there is an answer to that, I use "large", "important" etc.
• "Calcutta's Anglo-Indian upper-class" – I tread carefully here, but I think many people take "Anglo-Indian" to mean mixed race, and the OED rather gives support to this view. (It gives one usage as "A person of British descent born or living in India" but adds "Now rare".)

• A good point, but I like the brevity of this and the intended meaning should be understood from the context. Qono (talk) 02:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

• Early life and education

• "Adeline Marie de l'Etang and James Peter Pattle" – unless they were unmarried it would be better to give the mother's married surname and add the customary née.
• "Her father was … Her father's family" – Perhaps "his" the second time?
• "a page of Marie Antoinette" – Though one has a page of a book, I think in this sense the usual preposition is "to". ("Jack Falstaff, now Sir John, a boy, and page to Thomas Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk")
• "sisters — known" – the Manual of Style prescribes either spaced en-dashes – thus – or unspaced em-dashes—thus. Spaced em-dashes, which you have used here, are proscribed.

• I'll used unspaced, but I'm not sure what to do when there are em-dashes in quoted text with a space. Qono (talk) 02:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

• The Manual of Style bids us Wikify punctuation in quotations, as a rule. Tim riley talk 14:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

• "nontraditional" – the OED hyphenates this word. (And mightn't "unconventional" be clearer?)

• South Africa and Calcutta

• "she met British astronomer" – clunky AmE-style false title here. The insertion of a definite article before "British" will remedy it.
• "Two years after meeting, on 1 February 1838, they were married in Calcutta" – I had to look back a line or two to check that the meeting wasn't on 1 Feb 1838: it might be clearer to switch the words round on the lines of "Two years after meeting they were married in Calcutta on 1 February 1838".
• "Mary Ryan who they found" – "whom", please. (I know that's two "whoms" in one sentence, but grammar is grammar.)
• "the Governor-General Lord Henry Hardinge" – I'd put a comma before "Lord".
• "Herschel informed … Herschel sent" – perhaps "he" the second time?
• "Daguerrotype" – this is an accepted alternative spelling but the OED prefers "daguerreotype", which is how our WP article spells it.

• England

• "a literary and artistic salon "of Pre-Raphaelite painters, poets, and aristocrats with artistic pretensions".[11][10]" – better to keep the references in numerical order. And my own view (not shared by everyone) is that if you're quoting someone in the text you should say in the text whom you're quoting.

• My view here is to say who you're quoting when it is useful to know. In this case I think it is not. Qono (talk) 02:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

• "Royal Tunbridge Wells" – not Royal till 1909
• "neighbours of Sir Henry Taylor" – if this is the same Henry Taylor as before, just the surname is wanted at this reappearance, I think.
• "East Sheen, London" – East Sheen would not have been considered part of London in 1850.

• Early career

• "9‐year‐old Annie" – I don't think there is any firm rule on the point, but it is usual to use words for numbers up to ten.

• Mid-career

• "My husband from first to last…" – there are a lot a block quotes in the article, and this short quote would perhaps be better unblocked.
• "In 1869, she produces The Kiss of Peace, which she considers her finest work" – strange lapse into the present tense.
• "Idylles of the King" – not how Tennyson spelled "Idylls".

I'm enjoying the article. More later. Tim riley talk 11:20, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

I think I've addressed all of these. Thanks so much for your kind words and your suggestions so far! Qono (talk) 02:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

More over the weekend. Tim riley talk 20:27, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Second and concluding batch

• Influences

• "As an educated women intimately familiar with art and culture, Cameron was a Christian thinker familiar with medieval art, the Renaissance, and the Pre-Raphaelites". – This sentence doesn't seem to hang together. It seems to suggest that because she was educated she was a Christian thinker. I think if you lose the "As" at the beginning it will work, but you might replace one of the two "familiars" in the sentence.

• Concept of genius and beauty

• I enjoyed the Woolf quotation, but I think reviewers at FAC will question whether the views attributed to Cameron in a work of fiction should be quoted almost as if they represent the real Cameron's views.

• Women

• "are less dynamic and unique" – something can't be "less unique" – it either is unique or it isn't.

• Religion

• "Cameron's narrative portraits of women were influenced by tableaux vivants and amateur theatre" – not clear what this has to do with religion.
• "Cameron made over 50 images representing Madonna" – this could do with a definite article before Madonna.

• Idylls of the King

• "influenced in part by painter George Frederic Watts" – clunky false title, and we don't need the full name, description and link in any case, as we have already met Watts earlier.

• Contemporary reception

• "The Photographic Journal reviewed her images, writing" – journals do not write: they are written. Better to have journals saying, commenting etc.

• Midcentury rediscovery

• Heading – the OED hyphenates "mid-century".
• "Cameron's tableaus" – the plural of tableau was tableaux earlier in the article. Better be consistent, I'd say.

• Footnotes

• I'd lose the WP:EDITORIAL "memorable" in Footnote 1.

That's all from me. This is a fine article, well balanced and evidently comprehensive. Definitely worth putting up for FAC, in my view. Tim riley talk 14:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks so much for this review. I think i've addressed everything here. Your changes and suggestions were all valuable and definitely helped improve the article. Qono (talk) 17:02, 8 February 2020 (UTC)