Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Timeline of town creation in the Hudson Valley/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by Dabomb87 23:37, 16 November 2010 [1].

Timeline of town creation in the Hudson Valley[edit]

Timeline of town creation in the Hudson Valley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Camelbinky (talk) 23:19, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it is complete, accurate, and is useful not just for casual readers but also as a resource for improving Hudson Valley town, city, and county articles. Camelbinky (talk) 23:19, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

One glance comments. The lede is too short, and colour shouldn't be used as the sole way of presenting information per WP:ACCESS. Courcelles 23:28, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Added letter coding to supplement the color coding. Also expanded the lead.Camelbinky (talk) 07:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • More Comments
"Other changes that occurred include the transfer of Dutchess County's northern section, the Livingston Manor, to Columbia County; and Greene County was formed in 1800 by the combination of the southernmost towns of Albany County with the northernmost towns of Ulster, the history of the towns of Greene and Columbia counties can be found at the Timeline of town creation in New York's Capital District." Whoa... take a breath. That's an incredibly long sentence. It actually becomes unclear so much is thrown into some of these sentences
I'm really not sure about this format. Perhaps I'm just the type that hates charts and glosses over them, but this "list" is a maze at times, especially in Orange and Putnam. I wonder if a table with explanatory prose in a note column wouldn't be simpler. Or even a map? I mean, for pete's sake, I know this area and am getting lost.
The general ref- location is Syracuse. But, I'm wondering if something 150 years old is really the best source available?
Ref 5. What is this and why is it reliable?
Ref 4, same thing, why is it a RS?
Ref 7, more bibliographic details please. Also, have you examined this source in detail, or just the 50-word excerpts available online?
Ref 11 needs fuller bibliographic detail. (publisher, location, ISBN if available)
There's more sourcing problems. Personally, it looks like only online sources have been examined. For this subject, that leaves no confidence the best sources have been examined.

Courcelles 09:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Ruslik_Zero 18:16, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose by the following reasons:
    1. The lead is not a good summary of timelines. It should at least mention that parts of Ulster county were transfered to Orange. And what is Greene County? Why is not it mentioned in the lead?
    2. Rockland County would be formed from Orange in 1799 and Putnam County from Dutchess in 1812 It is not clear whether they were renamed or split.
    3. from which town(s) a particular town was created from (in the second paragraph) I think one 'from' is redundant.
    4. A note in Dutchess County section says that its government was formed in 1713, while the lead says that it was administered from Ulster County, until 1698. Which year is correct?
    5. The Manual of Style says that ndash should be used in ranges, but in in all timelines dash is used instead.
    6. It is not clear what dashed lines in Ulster county' section mean.
Ruslik_Zero 14:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Expanded the lead and added info you mentioned was missing.
    2. Changed word from formed to split.
    3. removed redundant from
    4. corrected date according to the source I believe to be more authoritative.
    5. added ndashes
    6. Only one I'm not sure about how to fix... the dashed lines are used because the lines would cross those other lines and did not want to cause confusion; I guess I could use a note on that section to explain its use.
Keep the notes coming, I hope to address all concerns and even if this doesnt pass FL at least I'm learning what it takes and this article is getting much better thanks to everyone's help.Camelbinky (talk) 16:08, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, please add a note. Ruslik_Zero 18:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done. What's next? Camelbinky (talk) 19:41, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quick comment: I am impressed by the diagrams, and find this to be a very informative list. One suggestion might be to add one or two relevant images to the lead for additional visual value. (I do not feel qualified to offer support or oppose the promotion of this list, as I am particularly unfamiliar with timelines on Wikipedia, but I think you did a great job--even if it does not reach FL status!) --Another Believer (Talk) 03:18, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Added photos and maps to a few of the county sections and a photo to the lead. To be honest you shouldnt worry about being unfamiliar with this type of article since to my best knowledge it is unique and a first for Wikipedia (except for the other ones I have created for other NY regions such as Timeline of town creation in Downstate New York). I am quite relieved that it has been received so well, I was afraid initial reactions might be against something so new.Camelbinky (talk) 00:22, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. No bold links please.–Done
  2. " more direct say" feels a little colloquial for me, perhaps tighten the language a bit.–Done
  3. "in 1683 divided itself into twelve counties" pretty sure it didn't do it "itself".–Done
  4. "timeline" or "time-line"...–Changed all to timeline. Done
  5. Refs in numerical order please, e.g. you have [7][3].–Done
  6. Why do notes have a space between them and the text they relate to, e.g. Fredericksburgh [A] while refs don't?–Removed space between town name and note. Done.
  7. Ulster county section, note [D] explanation appears indented.–Done
  8. Is "In 1863 the Orange County Board of Supervisors erected two new towns from part of Monroe, named Highlands and Southfield. This was declared null and void by the state legislature in 1865 and therefore those towns are not shown here." referenced?–Done
  9. Rockland County image has five towns, not the four listed, I think Havestraw still seems to exist.–My observation is that Haverstraw is there as a town.
  10. Ref 3 is so overused, perhaps consider making it a general reference.–Done. Made it a general reference, still used about 8 or so times as a specific reference where removing it would cause confusion as to the what is referencing a specific date or statement. This was done based on recently promoted baseball-related FL's from a couple months ago.
  11. Ref 4 has a spare .–Done
  12. Ref 5 vs Ref 8 - some first names first, some last. Be consistent in the references.–Done
  13. Ref 18 - a) is it reliable?–Yes. b) is it actually "Stony Point" rather than "Stony Brook"?–Stony Point and Done

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:39, 11 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can get those things fixed, probably today if I dont get interrupted by real-life, otherwise give me a couple days. 1 through 8 should be easy to change to your recommendation. 9 however I believe you are mistaken in your count, as Haverstraw is indeed listed in the timeline as a town (I believe you are looking at the precinct and not noticing the town) so you are correct that there are five towns in the map, but you are incorrect that Haverstraw is not listed in the timeline. 10, 11, and 12 should be easy to fix. 13- Yes reliable, done by the town historian so it counts as a RS, you are correct should be Stony Point not Stony Brook, my bad due to being used to SUNY-Stony Brook publishing a large number of sources I have used in other articles. Thank you for your help and let me know if there is more once I am done with the 12 here that can be fixed.Camelbinky (talk) 22:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Done with all problems listed so far...Camelbinky (talk) 02:34, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quick comment – Just one small thing to point out: I see "southernmost" and "northern most" in the lead. The two should probably have a consistent style, one way or the other. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:13, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
DoneCamelbinky (talk) 15:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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