Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of international cricket centuries by Kumar Sangakkara/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 03:26, 6 July 2012 [1].

List of international cricket centuries by Kumar Sangakkara[edit]

List of international cricket centuries by Kumar Sangakkara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:00, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because, I've been working on this article for a while, and feel that it now meets all the FL criteria. It is based on several existing FLs such as List of international cricket centuries by Mahela Jayawardene and List of international cricket centuries by Rahul Dravid. Looking forward for your comments and suggestions. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:00, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comment - Any special reason for having this article? The "list of centuries" is already presented in the main article. —Vensatry (Ping me) 17:22, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
41 centuries (8th highest among all the cricketers) is quite significant to warrant a separate article I think. Therefore the list on the main article has to go. I will replace it with a link to this article. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My concern is with the main article. It looks too small and for the given 41 centuries, I think it can very well be accommodated in the main article itself. —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever your concern, see few examples: List of international cricket centuries by Jacques Kallis, which is a FL, and the article Jacques Kallis is also small. It really doesn't matter, tons of cricket centuries lists has been promoted to FL when the original article is small. Dipankan (Have a chat?) 06:12, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We are discussing about this list right now and I think there is absolutely no need of discussing others. I faced a similar problem when I nominated VVS Laxman's article. See the Next-to-last comment here. —Vensatry (Ping me) 06:30, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will try to keep myself cool. You are turning the matter again, and the article I pointed to was example, not to be compared with this article. Judge this article's quality and then decide whether to promote it or not. Dipankan (Have a chat?) 06:36, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have added an "Awards" section to the main article, in-line with a number of similar pages. Don't think the main article can accommodate another set of tables—a list of centuries—in this case. I hope this addresses the Vensatry's concern. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 07:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are not trying to understand my point. This list is a classic example of content forking. When I did a prose check of the main article it doesn't even come close to 7.5 KB. I see no other articles smaller than this one (including Kallis). In this case, it violates criterion 3b of WP:FLCR. Anyway, I leave it to other editors to decide upon this. —Vensatry (Ping me) 08:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did some work on the prose section and the article size hovers around 60 KB. Prose size is also in-par with several FLs I've looked at. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The expanded article has a prose size comparable to the parent articles of other FLs, but I'm still not sure about the minimum prose size. So I leave it to other editors to decide upon. —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:53, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from ZiaKhan 23:18, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quick comments
  • Image needs Alt text. Added ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link the "captain" and "innings" at first use. Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "....in One Day International (ODI) and Twenty20 formats of the game." → "in One Day International (ODI) and Twenty20 International (T20I) formats of the game." Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure but you may change "up to June 2012" to "as of June 2012". Changed ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He scored his maiden Test century just over one year later," remove "just over". Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "for a losing cause in the 2nd match of the 2003 Cherry Blossom Sharjah Cup." → second. Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "having scored only 2 centuries in the first 4 years.[19]" → "two" and "four". Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The start of his One Day International career" → ODI. Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He has intermittently ranked number 1 in the ICC Test batsmen rankings." may be "He has intermittently topped the ICC Test batsmen rankings." Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The spade should likely be replaced by ‡ or something else. Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link "Player of the match". Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add some information about his T20I career. Mentioned his highest score in T20I cricket. He is yet to score a century in this format of the game. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Something is missing in ref # 47. Fixed ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • ESPNcricinfo should be used in the "work" parameter in the External links. Fixed ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ZiaKhan 20:09, 17 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 17:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
 Done by Astronomyinertia, thanks! Dipankan (Have a chat?) 05:32, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More comments –

  • Unlink "India" in the last para since it is linked in the 1st.
  • ".... the fifth instance of successive double-centuries in Test cricket.[11]", I think it will be very helpful if you add a note here. ZiaKhan 01:24, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support– Meets the criteria. ZiaKhan 07:01, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 10:40, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Regarding the 3b issue, I think the list is fine, the parent article is of a considerable size and it can be expanded further, so in my opinion the list is fine on its own
  • "on 29 occasions in Test cricket and 13 times in ODI matches" -> "29 and 13 times in test cricket and ODI matches respectively"
 Done
  • "he made 105 not out, taking Sri Lanka" -> "he made 105 not out, helping Sri Lanka"
 Done
  • "making it fifth such instance in Test cricket" -> "the fifth occurrence in test cricket"
 Done
  • "Scoring 152 against England in December 2007, he became the ninth batsman and second among his countrymen to score centuries against all Test–playing nations" -> "He became the ninth batsmen and second Sri Lankan to score centuries against all Test-playing nations in December 2007, when he scored 152 against England."
 Done
  • "First of his..." -> "The first of his..."
Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sangakkara, with eight double-centuries to his name is next..." -> With eight double-centuries, he is only behind..."
 Done
  • "In 2010, he said that his ambition is to get 30 Test centuries" I don't see the relevance of this sentence at all, I would remove it, its just shoe horned at the end of the para'
 Done
  • "Sangakkara's debut ODI century was against Pakistan, for a losing cause in the second match -> Sangakkara's first ODI century was in a loss against Pakistan in the second match"
 Done
  • "having scored only two centuries in the first four years" -> "as he only scored two centuries during the first four years"
Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He made his highest score of 138 not out, again for a losing cause against India..." -> His highest score of 138 not out was made in a loss against India..."
 Done
  • "at a group stage" change at to in
Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • One problem with the prose is that there appears to be a lot of info and hat the prose does not flow. For examples his highest score in T20 is just shoved at the en of the third para, you could introduce better something like "Despite 13 centuries in ODIs, Sangakkara's highest score in T20I is 78. Also in the second para you mention double centuries near the start of the para and then there is another bit towards the end which appears at the moment to have been after thought. This should be moved so it is after the original double century bit
Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've split the references into a separate column. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could also consider adding colour to along with the symbols, so they are easier to distinguish
Since we have symbols for not-out, player of the match, captaincy and any combination of these, adding separate colors for each permutation can cause some inconvenience I think. We can leave out not-out; but still the cells with both player of the match and captaincy symbols are in need of an additional color. Do you think this combination of 3 colors is suitable for the table? ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "First Sri Lankan player to reach the milestone is Marvan Atapattu" this should be in the past tense change is to was
Done
  • same with note 3 as well that should be in the past tense
Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 16:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NapHit (talk) 19:11, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • One more comment, I'm confused as to why you've put the rowscopes in the date column. The list is about centuries, surely it would be more logical to put the rowscopes before each century? NapHit (talk) 10:40, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 15:11, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Vensatry
Initial comments

Since the subject has more than 40 centuries, I feel its fine to have a separate article (given the no. of centuries being more). Here's my review:

  • You could use a better caption for the lead image.
Changed ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 08:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "test cricket" -> Test cricket
 Done
  • Link "man-of-the-match"
 Done
  • "He was appointed captain of the Sri Lanka team in March 2009" - repetition of the same thing which was said in the first para.
Fixed ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 08:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overlinking of "Pakistan national cricket team".
 Done
  • "Sri Lankan side" -> Sri Lankan team (In key).
 Done
  • You have straight away gone into his first century in ODIs. I think a mention of his ODI debut must be there.
Done ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 08:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The table still does not meet the requirements of WP:ACCESS. Have a look at similar lists.
Went through lists of international centuries by Jacques Kallis, Ricky Ponting, Rahul Dravid, Mahela Jayawardene, Sachin Tendulkar and Sanath Jayasuriya, but don't see a major difference in table structure. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 08:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • All those were made FLs long back. We are in 2012, so this needs to comply with the new FL criteria. —Vensatry (Ping me) 08:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd like to see "Wisden" to be italicized in "Wisden Cricketers of the Year".
 Done
  • The lede is a bit lengthy with a lot of stuff being presented. For eg., "He is also the fastest batsman to reach 8,000 and 9,000 runs in Test cricket, taking 152 and 172 innings respectively". This statement may not be relevant here as it has got nothing to do with the centuries. Perhaps it would be more suitable in the main article.
Removed ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 08:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Despite 13 centuries in ODIs, Sangakkara's highest score in T20I is 78" - I'm not sure of what you're trying to convey through this statement.
Changed wording ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 08:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He has intermittently topped the ICC Test batsmen rankings". Don't know why suddenly you introduce this statement while talking about his ODI career.
Moved to second paragraph. ASTRONOMYINERTIA (TALK) 08:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The quality of prose is certainly not up to professional standards of writing and needs a complete re-write. The lead is not engaging as it just reads like a list of facts/achievements with no flow or continuation. —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:53, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose – Even with the prose-work that has been done already, the writing still resembles a bunch of facts thrown together in a list-like fashion, and I don't believe it meets FL standards. I also see glitches such as "making it fifth such instance in Test cricket" and "he is only behind to Donald Bradman and Brian Lara", which don't make me feel any more confident in the lead. A copy-edit by an editor new to the list is needed. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:12, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • My oppose is now struck; great job of copy-editing by Bencherlite again. I made one further change to the prose, but otherwise am satisfied with the work done. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've been asked to have a look at the prose, and I'll try to get to it ASAP in the light of the length of time this nomination has been running. BencherliteTalk 08:21, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've done what I can. Further comments and suggestions welcome. BencherliteTalk 11:31, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support subject to the disclaimer that I've done some work on the prose; apart from that, the list looks FL-worthy. I don't think that it's a 3(b) violation, given the current size of the Kumar Sangakkara article. BencherliteTalk 23:12, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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