Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Popotan soundtracks/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 20:21, 10 October 2009 [1].

List of Popotan soundtracks[edit]

Nominator(s): 陣内Jinnai 21:50, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because the item meets the criteria listed as far as I can tell. The article has been overhauled, peer-reviewed and re-assessed. 陣内Jinnai 21:50, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment "This is a list of soundtracks attributed to the" Please recast to a more engaging start. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Fixed. Also added all necessary refs to the re-edited intro.陣内Jinnai 23:16, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks, there's also a dab link (see the toolbox on the right-hand side of this page) that needs to be fixed. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:49, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • "Popotan is a 2002 Japanese visual novel by Petit Ferret that was adapted into an" What do you mean by "2002 ... visual novel"; was it released in 2002?
  • "produced theme song, "Gemstone" both bands" Missing word?
  • "The opening theme song for Poporaji was also performed placed on the CD." Doesn't make sense.
  • ""Popotan Maxi Single (ぽぽたん Maxi Single?)" is, as its title suggests, a maxi single." link for "maxi single"?
  • "The opening theme, "Popotan Hatake de Tsukamae te" (ぽぽたん畑でつかまえて?) performed by Umder17, the closing theme, "Suki", by Funta and a collaborative theme song, "Gem Stone"." That's not a complete sentence.
  • "Oricon albums chart" Link?
  • "In addition the opening and closing theme songs for the live radio broadcast Poporaji, which is based on the anime." Not a complete sentence.
  • "The disc also continues to story after the original six tracks from the first disc." "continues to" doesn't make sense.
  • ""Popotan", "Catching the Popotan Field" and "Popotan Kiss" were later sung during their live world tour" Whose live tour? Dabomb87 (talk) 23:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Oricon albums chart" Link? - not sure which one you're talking about here.
      • Is there an article about "Oricon's album chart" that you can link to (I was asking to a link to be added)? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think I have fixed the other items.陣内Jinnai 00:40, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. I did not evaluate the foreign-language sources for reliability. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:19, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Link titles should not be in all caps. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • The ones like that are listed as such on the website itself because they are in Japanese.陣内Jinnai 00:40, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from G.A.S (talk · contribs))
Comments from G.A.S (talk · contribs)
  • Per WP:MOSTITLE, works of art titles' (e.g. musical albums' titles and songs' titles) should be italicized (refer to List of Final Fantasy compilation albums for an example).
    • Did I miss some? If so, let me know. The only ones that isn't should be the maxi single, which isn't an album. It's closer to a single.陣内Jinnai 05:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider adding infoboxes to the albums' sections.
    • Those were dropped per some discussions as other anime soundtrack lists which this was modeled on removed them because of such discussions about being superfluous since the relevant info was right across from it.陣内Jinnai 05:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Accepted. I have not been following those discussions myself :). G.A.Stalk 05:28, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Did you consider converting the table in List_of_Popotan_soundtracks#Release_details to a 6×7 sortable table by converting the bullet lists in the first column to new columns? G.A.Stalk 15:27, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't know how and for a list that small I doubt it would do much. There isn't much to sort.陣内Jinnai 20:11, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • See article talk page for code. G.A.Stalk 07:20, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please use {{Nihongo2}} and {{Nihongo}} to format all remaining Romaji and Kanji properly per MOS:JAPAN. E.g. (1) {{Nihongo||ぽぽらじのうた|Poporaji No Uta}} (Alternatively: {{Nihongo2|ぽぽらじのうた}} ''Poporaji No Uta'') or (2) {{Nihongo2|ぽぽらじの歌}}. G.A.Stalk 07:47, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Done and the table is sortable now using the template you created with somewhat better spacing.陣内Jinnai 22:41, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Good, though {{nihongo}} has not yet been applied. G.A.Stalk 13:13, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Please note where it or {{nihongo2}} hasn't been applied. As I remember adding them to all the kanji/kana on the page not in refs.陣内Jinnai 23:39, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • It has not yet been added in any of the tables' |notex= fields. G.A.Stalk 04:39, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • Alright. They all have the nihongo2 template.陣内Jinnai 06:45, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • I have gone through the list and Italicized all Romaji. G.A.Stalk 07:37, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support G.A.Stalk 07:37, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support It looks like all issues raised were addressed.--Remurmur (talk) 00:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Is there any particular reason why the tracks are inconsistent with giving romaji transliterations and English translations. Like the track "Answer" is missing Kotae and "Minna de Odekake" is missing its translation. AngelFire3423 (talk) 07:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I did actually wonder about that myself: many of the tracks do not seem to have translated titles ("Answer" missing Kotae was due to a syntax error, though). G.A.Stalk 08:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oops. Looks like missed one. I added a translated title.陣内Jinnai 19:52, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Alot of tracks in Popo Music are untranslated still. AngelFire3423 (talk) 04:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Done. I think some of them I wasn't sure on, like 22, at the time since I didn't have my CD on me, but don't know about others.陣内Jinnai 19:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It does not look like this has been addressed (correct me if I'm wrong), but is there any reason why the tracks are not hidden like at List of Aria soundtracks? A few of the track lists on this page are inordinately long which extend the page unnecessarily. If there was a past discussion on showing the tracks by default, I would like to see it. Also, why do the album titles in the Release details section not include proper {{Nihongo}} templates? At the very least just write them in their English forms; its not right to just put it in Japanese.--十八 00:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I uncollapsed them because they violate Wikipedia's accessibility guidelines. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Then please tell me why the template has the option to hide the tracks if so desired? Why should any template on Wikipedia have options to hide text if it was violating accessibility?--十八 02:26, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why. Perhaps the creators of the template were not aware of the problems posed when they put in that capability. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Dont no if this will help, but i think i recall User:SandyGeorgia saying once on a featured article candadate that a collasped template doesnt mirror and therefore shouldnt be used. I think it was on one of Fuchs' FAs dont no exactly which one though. Salavat (talk) 14:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't mirror? Don't quite get that. Anyway, Juhachi does bring up a legtimate point. Some of these lists are rather long, especially as they must include Japanese, English and romaji translations. On the other hand, a couple notations are inside the lists. The reason I had them collapsed is because it does make the page unnessasarily long, especially the Poporaji and Popo Music soundteacks.陣内Jinnai 21:35, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:MIRROR. For more details on the accessibility problems, see MOS:SCROLL. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't violate anything on MOS:SCROLL. It does say they shouldn't be used in the article's body, but that's unclear what it means because the examples given do not really note lists of this type nor whether those would be considered the "body". IMO it wouldn't as i see prose as that, but I can understand someone disagreeing with my opinion.陣内Jinnai 02:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well by name this may be a list, but in technical terms the collapsed list is still within a body section of the article, so I think that's a moot point. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Diaa
  • Comment
  1. The reference dates are inconsistent you have sometimes 2009-08-28 and other times August 17, 2009. Please standarize.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Fixed. Dabomb87 (talk) 12:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Where are the references for Release details? and shouldn't this be before all the sections since it serves as an overview of the list?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Look in the prose. Tables don't need them if its in the prose. The only one that doesn't is "Popotan Maxi Single" which has conflicting dates none of which seem more or less reliable since some sites claim it came with the visual novel and others claim it was released soon after the visual novel. The website doesn't go back that far.
      1. Edit: The only sites that even list release dates are fansites, blogs from non-experts and the like. Even shops don't list the release date.陣内Jinnai 20:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Is there a general reference? Where did u get the title, Lyrics, Music, Arrangement and length info?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    1. No general references. All are gotten from the item itself or a website or in the case of some infomration on "Popotan Maxi Single", the visual novel.陣内Jinnai 19:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Why doesn't "Poporaji no Uta" have a lyrics column? --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Because its not clear who wrote "Poporaji" theme song.陣内Jinnai 19:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A few last minute comments that seem, to me, important enough to be resolved to fix up before I promote. I'm watching this nom so please fix up and I'll get on with it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The release details table is still horribly formatted. The titles needs translating into English. Lantis and CD should only be linked once. The Oricon peak positions need in-line references, and the sales figures do as well. And why doesn't the first one, the Popotan Maxi single have a release date?--十八 22:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oricon peak positions have in-line references, the sales information (which i assume you mean the units produced as that's the only info I have) is also referenced with in-line citations in the prose. The tables don't need them if the pose have it. As for the names in the table, I can translate them if you'd prefer English, but I see no reason the tables need to have both English and Japanese versions. The prose is good enough for that. And I already explained Popotan Maxi Single - see info in Diaa's hidden comments...essentially no reliable source cites a specific date. Reliable soruces just note its exitstance. Unreliable sources cite dates, but those dates vary.陣内Jinnai 03:07, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need a specific date, a month/year or even just a year will suffice. The names in the tables should at least be written in English; it's useless to anyone who can't read Japanese. And why exclude the cite from the table if it's in the prose? I don't know about you, but wading through prose to find a cite when it could be easily accessible in the table is making the reader do more work than is required.--十八 03:56, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Problem is the CD was released around (or when) the visaul novel was, which was just before Christmas so some sites say 12/02 and some 1/03 and again none of them I've found give even a relative date, just that it was released as a promotional item for the visual novel. I can put down 12/02 based on its release, but that might be considered synthesis. As for excluding cite from the table, its the same reason we exclusde it for other tables. If it's already cited in the prose its unlikely to be challenged by anyone who reads the article if we assume good faith. The average reader isn't likely to wade through the prose for such information anyway for almost any reference, table or not.
EDIT: The table is now all in English.陣内Jinnai 04:13, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I guess. Lantis and CD still need to only be linked once.--十八 05:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You mean in the table?陣内Jinnai 06:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, and I'd even go as far to suggest removing all the links in the table anyway, since its all been linked in the article before.--十八 06:57, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.陣内Jinnai 07:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support All things dealt with that could be dealt with.--十八 07:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The prose in the lede section is extremely weak.

  • There are indefinite articles and punctuation missing, as in this sentence: "was adapted into an anime by Shaft and radio drama broadcast on Osaka Radio."
  • Tense is also incorrect. The past participle, "Three soundtracks based on the visual novel have been released" sounds better than the simple past that is currently used.
  • "The first was a maxi single" -- "was" indicates it used to be a maxi single but isn't any more. The release still exists, so "is" should be used. Same "was"/"were" vs. "is"/"are" issue appears further in the paragraph:
    • "It was a limited print", "All three songs were sung by Under17."
  • Other sentences or part-sentences just don't make sense:
    • "Three soundtracks based on the anime." -- what??
    • "The single contained vocal and instrumental songs of the opening theme," -- can an instrumental be considered a song? "recordings" works better here
      • Edited the first, the second I don't agree with because it implies the songs are still being sung by Under17, which isn't true; just the recordings of the songs are being sung.陣内Jinnai 19:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • song can be used even when its not acompanied by the vocals.
    • "...of the opening theme, "Popotan", the closing theme "Answer", and "Magical Girl Mii"'s theme, "Magical Girl Mii's Pong"." -- inconsistent use of the serial comma here. Semi colons would actually work better: "...of the opening theme, "Popotan"; the closing theme, "Answer"; and "Magical Girl Mii"'s theme, "Magical Girl Mii's Pong"."
  • "The vocals were later re-released as part of their "Best" complications. The songs "Answer" and "Popotan" were also sung during their live tour." -- This isn't necessary information, but shouldn't "Best" be italicized?
  • "A promotional DVD for the anime came with a CD" -- poor language use. "Accompanied", "was released with" etc etc
  • "PopoTime, an anime soundtrack, was released with music by Osamu Tezuka with a TV cut opening and closing by Under17 and Funta, respectively." -- What's a TV cut? "containing" works better for the first "with", but the second part of the sentence is hard to read
    • Added a note for TV cut (note this is how they are noted on the liner notes)陣内Jinnai 04:04, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, got it. Still the sentence is poorly written, though. It needs plurals: "containing TV cuts of the opening and closing themes by Under17 and Funta, respectively." Matthewedwards :  Chat  14:20, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • In the lead, 3rd paragraph, 1st sentance "A song is a piece of music for accompanied or unaccompanied voice or voices or, 'the act or art of singing,'"陣内Jinnai 19:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Past tense issue appears again with words such as "contained"
  • "It's a PopoTime! was also produced" -- Was it released? It isn't clear

I didn't read the rest of the prose thoroughly, but I did take a glance and noticed some of the same issues regarding tense, punctuation and odd phrasing. Matthewedwards :  Chat  01:12, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • copyedited the article. The remaining issues of past-tense are time-related. I also edited similar instances throughout the article. I have commented on the 2 items above.陣内Jinnai 04:04, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've stricken resolved issues. The tense thing does need correcting. Even though you're describing something from the past, the releases still exist, and should be discussed in present tense. Matthewedwards :  Chat  14:20, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I edited the items above except where I have made specific contentions to them and why.陣内Jinnai 19:27, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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