Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Phoenix Suns seasons/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 21:32, 9 June 2011 [1].

List of Phoenix Suns seasons[edit]

List of Phoenix Suns seasons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Cheetah (talk) 07:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it meets the criteria. I recently worked on the Clippers' list, so I used it as a template to improve the Suns' list. Comments/Questions/Criticism are welcome! Cheetah (talk) 07:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • ", center from the University of Oklahoma" two links needed here.
    • done
  • "The franchise owns the NBA's..." maybe common USEng but would be more universal wit "The Suns franchise has the NBA's..."
    • done
  • "56 percent of its games" why not 56%?
    • Since it was in the body of the article, I thought percent was correct. I guess you're thinking that the second bullet of WP:% applies here. Anyway, I changed it, but I want you to think about it.--Cheetah (talk) 07:15, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "2010–2011 season." link and get rid of the second "20"
    • done
  • "playoffs 29 times, posted nineteen seasons of 50 or more wins, appeared nine times at" MOSNUM - all words or all digits but avoid mixing...
    • done
  • "winningest" this is the ugliest word ever invented by America. Can we be more international and say "franchise with most wins"?
    • done
  • GB sorts incorrectly in Safari. It should sort as zero.
    • done
  • 1954->1,954
    • done
  • ref 2 - en-dash please, twice.
    • done
  • Phoenix Suns cat is not needed as it's a supercat of Phoenix Suns seasons cat.
    • done

The Rambling Man (talk) 20:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • Thanks for your helpful comments, especially the one about sorting. I've done most of it, though on some of them I'd like an explanation. Thanks once more.--Cheetah (talk) 07:15, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • " In 2004, Nash signed with the Suns and led..." he re-signed then? No, maybe not, perhaps put the MVP thing after Nash's sentence...
    • I first mentioned that he got the MVP award, then explained why he got it. Do you still want me to mention the MVP award later in the paragraph?--Cheetah (talk) 07:15, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Amare Stoudamire" -> Amar'e (per our article).
    • done...he won that award in 2003 while he was known as Amare. I changed it to Amar'e, but shouldn't it be Amare?--Cheetah (talk) 07:15, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I guess we go with whatever you're using in the list to reliably source his name if there's a conflict... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Since there's not much conflict, I'll leave it as is. If a conflict arises, I'll follow your advice.--Cheetah (talk) 20:46, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • No need for bold text in the all-time records table.
    • done...are you sure about that? It's a total of the first two rows.
      • I suppose that's fair enough being bold, it's just the sheer volume of text being bold looks pretty naff. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 08:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • "win-loss" should be "win–loss" (endash rather than hyphen, as it is a disjunction).
  • First you use the term "began", but then change to "have made". Stick to one form.
  • I find the first sentence of the second paragraph too long.
  • I may be that this is really important somehow (I do not follow basketball or North American sports in general), but it seems as very trivial to mention from where Adams was drafted.
  • Perhaps mention 1976 when the first final is first discussed in the prose.
  • Also consider linking the finals the first time they are mentioned in the prose.
  • Parts of the lead are lacking references.
  • Win% = winning percentage should be in the key.
  • I was under the impression that acronyms should not be small, but I cannot find it in the MOS today. Perhaps someone else can confirm this?
  • Images check out fine.
  • Perhaps link 'Steve Nash' in the image caption.

Overall looks good. Arsenikk (talk) 20:06, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've done all but one. Can you tag the parts that you feel are lacking references? Thanks!--Cheetah (talk) 22:34, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • While general references are okay for the table itself, Wikipedia:Citing sources does not appreciate general references for prose. The information in the lead I am particularly concerned about is:
      • Content in the first paragraph after "The Suns began playing..."
      • The two last sentences in the second paragraph.
      • Only parts of paragraph three is reference. Arsenikk (talk) 19:25, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:12, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • "Since signing with the Suns in 2004, Nash led the team to three straight division titles." Would it make more sense if the sentence began with "After"? I think it might.
    • done
  • "appeared nine times at the NBA Western Conference Finals". Should "at" be "in"? That's the usage that's usually seen with something like this. Also, I'm not sure NBA needs repeating here. Just saying it was the conference finals should be sufficient.
    • done
  • "the Suns are the franchise with most wins never to have won an NBA Championship." Needs "the" before "most", and "Championship" should be decapitalized.
    • done
  • Bolding should be removed from the one row in All-time records per WP:BOLD.
    • done...are you sure about that? It's a total of the first two rows.--Cheetah (talk) 07:36, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • It says at MOS:BOLD (correct link) that italics is the preferred method for highlighting things. It says that table headings are an exception, so I'm not sure if the bold in the last row is covered by that. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:12, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I am not sure either. I removed all bolding to avoid any possible conflicts.--Cheetah (talk) 02:40, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes databasebasketball.com a reliable source? Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:24, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • it's owned by Roto Sports, Inc. Also, many "scholars" use it as a source – link.--Cheetah (talk) 07:36, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • One more that I missed while reviewing: the page range in reference 4 should be presented as pp. and not p. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:12, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • done

Comment Any reason why playoff series Won and Lost are listed in the same way, "winning team's score–losing team's score". I believe that because this list is about the Phoenix Suns, it should be listed "Phoenix Suns' score–opponent's score". It's less confusing and easier to read. — MT (talk) 05:23, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since the words "won" and "lost" are used, the scores are listed as you say "winning team's score–losing team's score". If those words were missing, then the scores would have been listed as "Phoenix Suns' score–opponent's score". By reading the word "lost", how could anyone be confused(and think that the Suns won)?--Cheetah (talk) 06:39, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, recently there are some series of reverts in List of Los Angeles Lakers seasons whether to write 4–0 or 0–4. It's probably because there are so many different style in NBA team's season articles. For example, the List of Boston Celtics seasons have different style. List of Miami Heat seasons have even a weirder way to write the playoff series. Anyway I still think that writing "Lost to Lakers, 2–4" make more sense than "Lost to Lakers, 4–2". But this isn't a big deal and shouldn't hinder your FLC. – MT (talk) 06:55, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There are currently 5 season lists at WP:FL and all 5 have the same format as this one. "lost to Lakers, 2-4" is similar to double negative for me. So when I read it, I analyze it like this: "lost to Lakers, lost" → lost+lost=won → Won vs. Lakers
Which is very confusing to me, but I'll wait to see what other reviewers say.--Cheetah (talk) 07:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's a valid reason. Now that I think about it, announcers often says, "lost to Lakers, four games to two". I also notice that all the different formats occur in non-FL lists, which should not be the standard. I'm retracting my suggestion to revert the scores format. But maybe someone would like to have other opinion on this. Anyway, great job on the list. Cheers! — MT (talk) 07:43, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I like "Lost to Lakers, 2–4" because it is easier to add up the playoffs win-loss record. But I guess you guys find it confusing. So, whatever format decided is fine with me.—Chris!c/t 18:31, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Harrias
;Comments from Harrias talk
  • "In the 1975–76 season, a rookie Alvan Adams led the team to its first NBA Finals," – By led, do you mean that he was the team's captain (is there even a captain in basketball??) or was the team's top scorer? This could probably use further explanation.
    • I reworded that sentence. There is a captain on a basketball team, but it's hard to verify who was the captain.--Cheetah (talk) 01:26, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overall, the lead seems a little short given the amount of information that is presented in the table: it could be worth noting in how many (or what percentage) of the seasons the Suns made it into the playoffs, and expanding upon the fact that the 16–66 record in their first year was their worst ever. Similarly, a sentence about the 1992–93 and 2004–05 being the teams' most successful regular seasons might be worth inclusion. Could also be worth mentioning the 13 straight playoffs appearances from 1988–89 to 2000–01? Harrias talk 10:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • To be honest I even thought the lead was too long. All the info you're offering to include are pretty trivial and the last paragraph has a couple of trivial info. At the same time, I'll try to add a couple more.--Cheetah (talk) 01:26, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I'm happy enough with the article now, thanks for your work. Harrias talk 07:01, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]


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