Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Bodley's Librarian/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 22:24, 3 February 2010 [1].

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Bodley's Librarian

Nominator(s): Bencherlite^Talk 17:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• Featured list candidates/Bodley's Librarian/archive1

Another Oxford-related list to keep TRM happy. You may have seen in the news last year that Cambridge University are thinking of selling off the "naming rights" to its library to raise money. Once again, Oxford is 400 years ahead of Cambridge, naming the main university library after the man who refounded it in 1602. Here's a list of the 23 men and 1 woman who have run the library since then. One of these days, I'll write an FLC where I don't have to write lots of mini-bios first... Bencherlite^Talk 17:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Light blue comments Library is mentioned six times in the first two sentences. A little repetitious. Like my comments. Redundant repetition ruthlessly reduced. And yes, I do like your comments. Oh, I see... Bodley offered, but did he actually do it? Yes, corrected for complete crystal-clear comprehensibility. "some one " I take it that the spacing is deliberate here, part of the direct quotation. Yes That quote's a bit odd, plenty of ye Olde English, it may be useful to provide a "translation", especially for terms such as "benefice of Cure"... I have "corrected" the spelling to modern usage (I'm sure that there's a WP guideline that lets me do that, but I can't immediately find it) and added "(i.e. not a parish priest)" at the end. And that sentence has nearly 70 words... Split into two. Is Lockey's "unfitness" cited somewhere (it's the odd one out in the lead) duplicate citation added for completeness Please be aware of an opposition to tables with a mixture of left- and centrally-aligned columns. The discussion is ongoing at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Oklahoma Sooners in the NBA and WNBA Drafts/archive1. Personally I have no problem whatsoever with it, but you should be forewarned! Thanks for the tip. Hyde was a Sub-Librarian. Can this be mentioned in the lead, the position itself I mean. Not sure, I'll have a think. "...weathers"[10]" we're missing a full stop somewhere here. Added. Is there an appropriate link for Licensing Act? Ooh, nice one. Licensing of the Press Act 1662 Do you think you should be consistent when referring to other librarians in the list by using their full name rather than a mixture of full names and just surnames? I hope that it's now consistent in full names on first mention, surnames on subsequent mention. "obtained."[11]" vs "Oxford".[15]" note different full stop placement... Now consistent, I hope. Anything on what Nicholson did in his 30-year tenure other than just the stuff he did before it? Somehow missed the fact that Nicholson had an entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Rewritten his article, and expanded his note here. Spare full stop in spec ref 1. Drat these cite templates that throw in extra full-stops! The Rambling Man (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for your comments, will address them ASAP. Addressed most, I hope. BencherliteTalk 14:09, 7 January 2010 (UTC) 20:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:03, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Good stuff; couldn't find much to quibble about. "Bodley's offer in 1598 to restore the library was accepted by the university" Any particular reason the passive voice is used? The second column, "Dates", seems a bit broad to me. Any chance that we could use a more specific noun, such as "Term" or "Tenure"? "Thomas was previously Librarian of Cornell University (1996–2007), and has also worked at Harvard " "also" seems redundant. "centrally-funded libraries" Per WP:HYPHEN, no hyphen after ly- adverbs. Not directly related to the list, but in {{Bodley's Librarians}}, I think "Other pages" could be more accurately expressed as "Related pages". Just my opinion, though. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:15, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Reworded "Tenure" used, although it sounds rather "American" – I'll see if I can think of a synonym I prefer "also" removed hyphen removed Reworded the template. Thanks for your commments. BencherliteTalk 02:51, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support One small thing, might it be worth mentioning that Thomas is the first foreign librarian again in her notes section? I realize it's in the lead, but that's a rather big first for a 400 year old institution. Also, it would be nice (if the info is out there) to know something about the selection process, even if only for the modern librarians. Staxringold _talk^contribs 07:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Note added re Thomas. Haven't found anything about the appointment process, old or new, but will keep looking. Many thanks for looking at this one. Bencherlite^Talk 07:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Have added material from an interview with Thomas in 2007 where she mentions being approached to apply, and her feelings about taking up the job. Bencherlite^Talk 14:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Mm40 (talk) 22:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

*Comment hopefully full review forthcoming, but two quibbles. First, could some more images be added? Maybe one of the current librarian (Thomas) in the lead and one or two of particularly notable or long-serving librarians next to the table? Preferably, they're a bit more recent; it seems sort of unbalanced for there to be images of the first four only. Also (very pedantic), the alt texts seem very choppy. I think there may be a few too many commas. Or maybe not. Not sure. Mm40 (talk) 01:25, 28 January 2010 (UTC) I've had a look for more images, but no joy. I can't justify fair-use images in this list. On Flickr, there's one dreadful photo of the current librarian (eyes closed) and nothing else, either under a CC licence or copyright. Google Images gives nothing that I can reuse. The ODNB biographies for some of the more recent (dead) librarians have photographs but they're still in copyright. Others have no images at all. The ones that have images that weren't in copyright are the ones that I copied and uploaded to Commons, so I don't know what else to do. I'll have a look at the alt text, and see if I can make it less choppy. <aside>keeps to himself personal views on merits of recent alt text obsession at FA/FL for articles and lists that few read and even fewer need alt text for...</aside> BencherliteTalk 13:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC) More comments from Mm40 (talk) I guess there was no official librarian (or no records) before the decline? Although they wouldn't need to be listed here (they weren't heads of the Bodleian Library), some mention might be nice. No names that I've seen. You might clarify that both the library and the position is named after Sir Thomas Bodley. Reworded. Do you think non-breaking spaces would be useful in Bandinel's James's, and Lockey's "college" column? It looks odd having "F)" by itself on a line. nbsps added to all "(A, F)" usages "university library at Oxford since about" Although "at Oxford" may be redundant, it may flow better with it, so I'll leave it up to you on whether or not to remove the words. I think I'll keep it in. What does the "removal" of books mean? Nitpick, but aren't books supposed to be removed from libraries then given back? Would "theft" be better? Am I giving too many suggestions in question form? Will check this – update: books were removed in a religious purge in 1550, so I've reworded this and added better source citations for the passage. In the first reference, please link to the correct chapter to make verification easier. I do give a link to the Bodleian Library chapter, please recheck. You may have missed the fact that I give links to the chapter and to the whole book, using the appropriate parameters of {{cite book}}. The sentence beginning "The first Librarian, Thomas James, was selected" seems a bit choppy. Split as two sentences "let him get married" -> "let him marry", sounds more formal Done "and to become Rector of St Aldate's Church, Oxford" Also, are there links for "Rector" and "St Aldate's Church, Oxford"? "to" cut; rector linked; no link for the church. Was Lockey generally regarded as unfit? Looking at Lockey's row, it seems one scholar thought this. Reworded to mention Wood in the lead as well. Somewhat major problem: can ODNB links be made to link to the subject's page, as currently, the links lead to the website's main page. No, unless you have UK library access or an academic subscription, when the links do work. {{ODNBsub}} added to the first mention of the ODNB. There's some inconsistent linking in the specific references. Why is the ODNB and the Oxford University Press linked in reference 17? Vaisey is linked at all mentions while Madan isn't. Either link at first mention or all the time. Ref 17 fixed, oversight. Vaisey and Madan delinked January is abbreviated in ref 25. Fixed Were all the ODNB entries written in 2004? Seems a bit odd... On a related note, ref 16 doesn't have a date. Yes, that's when the ODNB was written to supercede the old DNB. Date added for ref 16. I'll do a review of the table tomorrow (?). Mm40 (talk) 21:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks, BencherliteTalk 22:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Updated the one remaining issue about removal of books. BencherliteTalk 14:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC) One more thing about the lead: could you note those with the shortest and longest terms, for easy access? Added "the agreement in 1610" sounds like the agreement was already discussed. Reworded "he followed the library rules" also, do we know what rule prevented him from giving Charles the book? In any event, interesting fact "the" removed, added "that prohibited books being borrowed" "he resigned on becoming" -> "he resigned upon becoming" Done Hyde's second sentence repeats "also" twice; please "denude" the repetition somehow one "also" stripped away "from about the age of 24 until" done You can cut out "that had been" in "the library catalogue that had been begun by Bowles" done Link "Principal of Jesus College" to List of Principals and Fellows of Jesus College, Oxford? What an excellent FL, I wonder who did most of the work on it...? Nice idea "Ill-health eventually" shouldn't be hyphenated Well spotted "used in the evenings by students and academics" Done What does "the first purpose-built underground book store" mean? Reworded to "Under Nicholson, the Bodleian's first purpose-built underground book store was constructed; at the time, it was the largest in the world", with an open reference to confirm "his decision to appoint a woman" -> "his appointment of a woman" done Why would Madan have needed to communicate with Nicholson? I'm assuming this written-communication-only thing happened during Nicholson's term Well, they were working in the same library, so hardly surprising that they would need to communicate. Added "when Nicholson was the librarian" to clarify Is there any link for "Reader in Bibliography"? Linked reader, but the position itself doesn't have an article What does "the position of Marshal Foch professor" mean? It's the name of the chair (e.g. link to the current prof; redlinked Marshal Foch Professor of French Literature in the hope that I'll get round to it at some point... After these issues are fixed, I'll gladly support. Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 13:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks for your nitpicking. If you're in an Oxford frame of mind, then the Laudian Professor of Arabic (FLC above) is in a similar style. BencherliteTalk 14:44, 3 February 2010 (UTC) And Marshal Foch Professor of French Literature is no longer a redlink... BencherliteTalk 16:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments from KV5

• "The head of the Bodleian Library, the main library at the University of Oxford, is known as Bodley's Librarian: Sir Thomas Bodley, as founder, gave his name to both library and librarian." - this seems like a lot of use of forms of the word "library". 5 times in the opening sentence? Is there any way to re-word some of these (for example, gave his name to both the building and the position?
• I don't think "Rector" is a proper noun... unless that's a full title? I'm never sure...

Other than those two minor things, well done. Cheers. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Fair point, changed to "the institution and the position" as (being boring) the library is more than the buildings it is in.
• I think a capital letter is appropriate since the title is "Rector of St Aldate's" e.g. the church website says "Charlie Cleverly, Rector of St Aldates, commented..." Bencherlite^Talk 16:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Both well-resolved. I support the promotion of this list. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:38, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.