Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Waveguide filter/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 10:03, 25 September 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Waveguide filter[edit]

Waveguide filter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): SpinningSpark 16:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it is a sister article to Mechanical filter and Distributed element filter, both FAs, and I believe it has now been brought to the same standard. SpinningSpark 16:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

comments from JMiall

some comments after reading the start of the article:

  • Article scope: I'm not really happy with how you've approached this, first of all you say that waveguides are hollow metal tubes but then later have to clarify this and say that actually the term is used more broadly (personally I regard the broader definition as being correct with the common term for various types of hollow metal tube also being 'waveguide') and that this article will only deal with filters of one type. I think a better approach would be to start with a very general definition of a waveguide filter that is always true, then mention the caveat and say that the rest of this article will only deal with the case of filters in hollow metal tubes. I think the best approach would be to rename this article or make this article cover other types as well (eg Coplanar waveguide filters).
  • I'm going to plead WP:COMMONNAME on this one. Sources generally refer to hollow-metal waveguide simply as waveguide. It is the common name, ergo that should be the title of the article. It would usually only be specified to be "hollow-metal" where disambiguation is needed. Wikipedia can do the same and create Waveguide filter (disambiguation) should it ever be needed. 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I was working here on the principle that the lede should, in as far as possible, be understandable by an anyone and not be too technical. Normal mode gives a nice overview of vibrational modes and their numbering. Transverse mode is linked in the body of the article where modes are discussed in more detail. I agree that Electromagnetic modes would be a useful addition to Wikipedia. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • It may well be that it could be added to that article, but a summary of waveguide development is helpful background in this article also. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The second paragraph of History is about the history of lumped element filters which you've just said are outside the scope of this article
  • True, but it is significant to the history. Waveguide filters started off as, and still frequently are, direct equivalents of lumped-element designs. It is unlikely that waveguide filter history would have taken the path it did without the precursor of lumped-element filter design. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'during the war years'- which war?
  • Fixed. I was trying to avoid repeating WWII and thought the context would be taken from the previous mention. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Amongst the well-known scientists and engineers...' - did all these people actually work on waveguide filters though?
  • Don't really know the answer to that. My principle source for the history is Levy & Cohn and those are the names they mention in this connection (ie right in amongst the discussion of Rad Lab's development of microwave cavity filters). However, the only specific work mentioned is that of Bethe. It is problematic to determine who did exactly what as nothing was published during the war. Fano & Lawson published the technical results of the work after the war, but I don't know if they throw any light on who did what either. I would be cool with removing the statement if you think it does not add to the article. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Rad Lab developed waveguide cavity filters.' - very short sentence that has nearly been said already in the paragraph
  • 'to be taken "as is" and transformed directly' - what does this mean?
  • It means lumped-element designs can be used without further modification other than running through Kuroda's transforms. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'kown'
  • 'but it was some time before Kuroda's Japanese work became widely known' - anywhere or outside of Japan? Had other parts of his work become widely known?
  • the whole 'Theoretical work...' paragraph again isn't really in the stated scope of this article.
  • All things which became important in waveguide filter design. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • the history section would really benefit from being nearer the end of the article so that readers aren't confronted with terms that aren't explained until much later in the article
  • I tend to agree with that, but articles of this sort have repeatedly been requested at peer review and FA that the history section be moved nearer the front. The thinking seems to be that the history is easier to understand and may be of more interest to the general reader than technical details. This article is consistent with the previous FAs Mechanical filter and distributed element filter in layout. I am not inclined to change it now that a format has been established by precedent - if I did it will end up being changed back and forth on every reviewers whim. If the community establishes a preferred layout, through a WP:WikiProject Electronics layout guideline for instance, then it would be time to change it, and all the others that previously gone through FA - all at the same time. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'The first use of these in a filter was by S. B. Cohn in 1965 using titanium dioxide as the dielectric material' - citation for this? There was widespread use dielectrics in coaxial cables and capacitors before this so it doesn't seem much of a stretch to put dielectric in a waveguide.

JMiall₰ 19:11, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • It is when putting anything like that in wartime radars would cause them to catch fire! The citation is in Nalwa, cited at the end of the paragraph. He references Cohn at this conference (1965) and this publication (1968). Nalwa is not the only source this claim can be found in. Hunter, for instance, makes the same claim in even clearer terms and I can see several Gbooks results for the same thing in in books that are not in my bibliography. SpinningSpark 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just a comment, as time is taken into account with FAC nominations: this nomination was not transcluded at WP:FAC until I added it today. Maralia (talk) 23:15, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Image captions appear to be written as for a textbook, which isn't entirely appropriate for Wikipedia articles - for example, we don't typically use the "figure" label
  • File:PSM_V25_D738_John_William_Strutt_Lord_Rayleigh.jpg needs a US PD tag
  • File:Hans_Bethe.jpg is tagged as lacking author information and the source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:13, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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