Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Leo Minor/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose 20:23, 19 November 2012 [1].
Leo Minor[edit]
Leo Minor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Toolbox |
---|
I am feeling more comfortable with constellation articles now - this is my third one and I think it is either of, or within striking distance of, featured article status. Let me know what to fix (it's a short article!) and I'll get cracking. It got a good GA review. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:12, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Leaningsupport (GA reviewer)
- Checked images during my GA review, they're fine.
- Footnotes for Delta Scuti and the Delta Scuti variables, as well as Nogami & Masuda 1997, don't point anywhere. Nogami could use page numbers too.
- dang, still getting my head around the sfn referencing system. Anyway, both refs fixed - Nogami is a journal so I've always just used the page ranges in the bottom ref rather than single out specific page (unlike books) Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I've reviewed the changes since my review and they seem fine otherwise. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:31, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Supporting now that other reviewers' comments are addressed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:58, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Initial Comments - (Done) prose and grammar could use a bit more work (missing words, odd grammar, ...). Some initial comments regarding the content (more to come):
- Is it possible to get 21 and 46 Leonis Minor marked on the infobox map like Beta? It would help casual readers to connect image and text, when atleast the main stars are labelled (not strictly required, just nice to have).
- I've made a map here but am just figuring out how to tweak the constellation infobox... Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:30, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- It's a template issue. At first check it looks like the template enforces constellation name + " IAU.svg" as image filename and accepts nothing else. The variable image-parameter is filled with a predefined fix filename (...). You would have to ask the template editors to "open" that parameter for a more flexible input. GermanJoe (talk) 12:10, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I've made a map here but am just figuring out how to tweak the constellation infobox... Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:30, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The sub-article for 46 Leonis Minor has 95 ly distance instead of 98 (but is a very short stub). Please double-check.
- "Leo Minor is a dark area of the sky with a triangle of brighter stars just visible to the naked eye in good conditions.[13] Patrick Moore has described it as having "dubious claims to a separate identity".[14]" reads more like a general "characteristic". Suggest to merge this part somewhere into "Characteristics" and immediately start features with "Stars".
- Add distance to Beta (you already note distances to 21 and 46).
- "The [mysterious] deep sky object ..." - remove subjective term, add 1-2 very brief facts about the background of it's research.
- "Arp 107 is a pair of galaxies in the process of merging, located some 450 million light years away.[52] NGC 3395 and NGC 3396 are a spiral and irregular barred spiral galaxy respectively that are interacting, located 1.33 degrees southwest of Praecipua.[53]" => Are the 2 sentences describing 2 different pairs of galaxies? Reading the actual text, the second sentence could be misunderstood as further details of the first pair.
- Incomplete caption sentences => no periods.
- Suggest another complete readthrough for awkward phrasing, flow and minor grammar issues. GermanJoe (talk) 10:51, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "German astronomer Christian Ludwig Ideler posited that the stars of Leo Minor had been termed Al Thibā' wa-Aulāduhā, "Gazelle with her Young" on the Borgian globe, however Lach held that they had been Al Haud "the Pond", which the Gazelle jumps into." ==> "Borgian globe" and "Lach" need a bit more detail for the uninitiated. GermanJoe (talk) 16:11, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- added some material on the globe, but Lach is bafflingly elusive....Allen doesn't explain who he was anywhere (!) Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:02, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- After some googling in the wrong direction i found him: "Lach" is probably Friedrich W. Lach, who wrote "Anleitung zur Kenntniß der Sternnahmen mit Erläuterungen aus der Arabischen Sprache und Sternkunde.", published 1796, by Weidmann, Leipzig (Germany) (see this link for a bit of German info [[2]]. GermanJoe (talk) 18:54, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Some more info: Friedrich W. Lach was an Arabist, who translated the "Anleitung zur Kenntniß der Sternnahmen" from an original Arabic work (according to this short biographical link [[3]]. GermanJoe (talk) 19:09, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- added some material on the globe, but Lach is bafflingly elusive....Allen doesn't explain who he was anywhere (!) Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:02, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I checked my databases for more information, but came up empty-handed, so I'm confident that criteria 1b and 1c are met; meets other FAC criteria too. Sasata (talk) 07:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Comments by Sasata (talk) 16:45, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- links: magnitude, orange giant, light year
- shouldn't the lead say how many stars are in the constellation?
- "Ptolemy classified the stars in this area as άμὸρφωτοι (not belonging to a constellation outline) of the constellation of Leo." Are the Greek letters necessary? I'm not sure why this is useful.
- "Johannes Hevelius set about filling parts of the northern celestial hemisphere as he mapped the heavens," Filling it with what?
- "Richard A. Proctor gave the constellation the name Leaena" Should Leaena be italicized, either as a non-English name or as word-as-word?
- Borgian globe -> I'm guessing this doesn't have to do with the Borg (Star Trek)?
- Ultimately it is to do with Stefano Borgia who founded the Borgia Museum.
Details online are scant, and I am ferreting out what I can to addadded. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:15, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Ultimately it is to do with Stefano Borgia who founded the Borgia Museum.
- Who is Lach?
- link Chinese astronomy, parsec, luminosity, giant star, period, arcminute
- should light-years be hyphenated?
- "pulsating stars which have been used" which->that (check article for several other occurrences
whichthat should be switched)
- Ahaaa, I think "which" is correct. The whole class (delta scuti variables_ can be used like this, hence "class of pulsating variables, which..." is correct - if OTOH we say it is only "pulsating variables", then it is only a subset of those, which would be "that".....I am leaning towards "which" as I figure taking it with "class of.." has alraedy sub-defined it Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:13, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "Which" may well be preferable, but it's generally preceded by a comma (as you've done in most other instances). The other time you use "which" without a comma is "It consists of a white dwarf and a donor star which orbit each other..." -- again, I think you can leave the "which" here but you should insert a comma beforehand. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Ahaaa, I think "which" is correct. The whole class (delta scuti variables_ can be used like this, hence "class of pulsating variables, which..." is correct - if OTOH we say it is only "pulsating variables", then it is only a subset of those, which would be "that".....I am leaning towards "which" as I figure taking it with "class of.." has alraedy sub-defined it Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:13, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "20 Leonis Minoris is a multiple star system only 49 light-years (15 parsecs) away from the Sun." Is the use of "only" to convince us that 49 ly is a short distance?
- "400 million year old star" needs hyphens
- inconsistent use of title/sentence case in journal article titles
- double period in Hevelius 1687 source
- inconsistent isbn hyphenation
- does Jenniskens needs page #'s?
- some book sources give publisher locations, others don't
- "FeII/FeI" needs subscripting
- full page range for Russell 1922? Wagner 1998? Others?
- issue # for Skiff 1986?
- endashes for page ranges
- why are you using sfn-style referencing for this article? Here it doesn't seem to provide any real benefit, but instead bloats the references by providing a redundant list of "citations" before the "Sources" (making the reader have to look twice for the citation). As far as I can see, the only advantage in this article is to distinguish between "Wagman 2003, pp. 189-90" and "Wagman 2003, p. 8.", but there are more efficient ways to do this. Also, Ridpath & Tirion 2001, pp. 168-69. looks to be the same as Ridpath & Tirion 2001, pp. 168-169.
- B'rer Rabbit and Keilana have been using them. My last constellation FA nom got largely converted whil at FAC. I do find it easier for navigation while editing and I like the sfn coding to write, but I agree about the extra layer of complexity at the bottom. I'd rather not spend another hour or two of my life converting this one back but will not oppose anyone else doing so, and my next articles are the usual style. sigh. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:29, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I have better things to do with an hour too, so you don't have to worry about me changing it. I'll just note that it's unfortunately not possible to give a direct link in the short form citation with this template ... Sasata (talk) 04:08, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- B'rer Rabbit and Keilana have been using them. My last constellation FA nom got largely converted whil at FAC. I do find it easier for navigation while editing and I like the sfn coding to write, but I agree about the extra layer of complexity at the bottom. I'd rather not spend another hour or two of my life converting this one back but will not oppose anyone else doing so, and my next articles are the usual style. sigh. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:29, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- this source says it culminates on midnight February 24, not 9 pm on May 24. It also claims that NGC 3432 has a magnitude of 11.7, rather than 11.2. Also, why give the size of the other two galaxies and not this one?
More comments - (Done):
- infobox ==> should it be 3 main stars instead of 2 (21,46 and Beta)? The template documentation has "all designated stars connected by lines in the main pattern". (on a completely unrelated note: Corona Australis should have 5 main stars instead of 6, when applying this guideline).
- The most objective standard I've seen in this constellation is identifying the three brighter than mag 4.5...and "triangle" is mentioned a few times...problem with "connected by lines" is so many damn variations on this for all these constellations :/ Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:34, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- (optional) infobox image improvement to label main stars (see above)
- "There are 37 stars brighter than apparent magnitude 6.5, of which three are brighter than magnitude 4.5—these forming a rough triangle. " ==> This reads clunky. Having said that, i tried to rephrase it a few times and came up with nothing better - YMMV.
- "With a period of approximately 215 seconds, and losing a second every 8.9 million years, the 400 million year-old star has been touted as the most stable celestial clock.[37]" ==> this needs a more formal rephrase (tout?), maybe even try a direct quote, if it's notable enough (the phrase should work well as quote). GermanJoe (talk) 10:20, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Comments by a non-astronomer - Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:21, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There are several duplicate wikilinks.
"Deep-sky object" is a section heading but is not defined or wikilinked anywhere.
- The following sentences are of awkward construction:
"Rapidly rotating, it is likely flattened in shape."
"With spectral class K0III,[16] it has around 32 times the luminosity and is 8.5 times the size of our sun,[17] its orange colour evident when seen through binoculars."
"The secondary is a yellow-white main sequence star of spectral type F8 and separated by 11 seconds of arc."
"The fact that the secondary star is brighter than expected indicates it is likely two stars very close together that are unable to be made out separately with current viewing technology."
- I'm at a bit of a loss how to rephrase this sentence and am open to suggestions. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:44, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps "(Scientists suggest that) the secondary star's unexpected brightness indicates that it likely consists of two closely orbiting stars, which remain indifferentiable with current technology" - Or is that worse? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:30, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Essentially it is that spectrum corresponds with brightness on a scale....yeah that's possible. I am going to have a play with it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- How about something like "The fact that the secondary star is brighter than expected indicates it is likely to be very close to the primary star but current viewing technology is unable to resolve the pair." Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:43, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah ok, to clarify, what the source says is that the secondary is actually a pair of stars and they are unsplittable from each other (hence there are three stars overall) - we know this because the star is too bright for what its spectrum is and therefore has to be a pair of stars of the same spectrum Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:05, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- This matter is clarified now. Changed my "Comments" to "Support" Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:00, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah ok, to clarify, what the source says is that the secondary is actually a pair of stars and they are unsplittable from each other (hence there are three stars overall) - we know this because the star is too bright for what its spectrum is and therefore has to be a pair of stars of the same spectrum Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:05, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- How about something like "The fact that the secondary star is brighter than expected indicates it is likely to be very close to the primary star but current viewing technology is unable to resolve the pair." Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:43, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Essentially it is that spectrum corresponds with brightness on a scale....yeah that's possible. I am going to have a play with it. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm at a bit of a loss how to rephrase this sentence and am open to suggestions. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:44, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The white dwarf sucks matter from the other star onto an accretion disc which is heated to between 6000 and 10000 K ..." - I think the bolded bit of this sentence implies that heat is coming from an external source.
"Lying near the 650 million light year-distant spiral galaxy IC 2497, it is around the same size as the Milky Way,[55] though contains a 16,000 light year wide hole."
Questions from MarchOrDie
- What's a "nearly flat triangle"?
- One of the sources described the 3 brightest stars as forming a "flattened triangle", so I was trying to word something similar without paraphrasing...however, in various depictions, there are a variable number of lines connecting 3,4 or 5 stars, so I have ditched it from the lead as an unnecessary complication. It isn't a prominent pattern by any stretch of the imagination. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:40, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- What's "a polygon of 16 segments"? --MarchOrDie (talk) 17:43, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The constellation area is a 16 sided figure if you look at the constellation chart. Not sure if there is a clearer way of describing it. Casliber (talk · contribs)
- Edge (geometry) is the better term then, but "sides" might be more intelligible to a general audience. --MarchOrDie (talk) 20:53, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps 16 sides? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:12, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Edge (geometry) is the better term then, but "sides" might be more intelligible to a general audience. --MarchOrDie (talk) 20:53, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The constellation area is a 16 sided figure if you look at the constellation chart. Not sure if there is a clearer way of describing it. Casliber (talk · contribs)
- Why is "Classical" capitalised? Our article on the era doesn't do this. --MarchOrDie (talk) 19:21, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Are we in British or American English in this article? --MarchOrDie (talk) 17:20, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Gosh I had to think about that one...British (as an aussie I write in British naturally, though I have a tendency to "-ize" words... Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, I understand that "ize" is perfectly acceptable in BritEng, but because so many equate it with AmEng, it's generally simpler for us Commonwealth folk to use "ise" and be done with it... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Gosh I had to think about that one...British (as an aussie I write in British naturally, though I have a tendency to "-ize" words... Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:37, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support after another read and some minor copy-edits. Diff is [4]. All noted issues have been adressed. GermanJoe (talk) 13:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Support
and one commentThis has been thoroughly reviewed already, and I could only find one nitpick. I assume that you'll sort that out, so it would be churlish not to support now Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:57, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It has around double the mass, 7.8 times the radius and is 36 times as luminous as the Earth's sun. — clunky and dubiously grammatical Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:57, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.