User talk:ThatPeskyCommoner/Archive 19

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 15

←

Archive 17

Your Credo account access has been sent to your email!

All editors who were approved for a Credo account and filled out the survey giving their username and email address were emailed Credo account access information. Please check your email.

If you didn't receive an email, or didn't fill out the survey, please email me at wikiocaasi@yahoo.com
If you tried out Credo and no longer want access, email me at wikiocaasi@yahoo.com

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me. I hope you enjoy your account! User:Ocaasi 15:39, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Your free 1-year Questia online library account is approved ready

Good news! You are approved for access to 77,000 full-text books and 4 million journal, magazine, newspaper articles, and encyclopedia entries. Check your Wikipedia email!

Go to https://www.questia.com/specialoffer
Input your unique Offer ID and Promotional code. Click Continue. (Note that the activation codes are one-time use only and are case-sensitive).
Create your account by entering the requested information. (This is private and no one from Wikipedia will see it).
You'll then see the welcome page with your Login ID. (The account is now active for 1 year).

If you need help, please first ask Ocaasi at wikiocaasi@yahoo.com and, second, email QuestiaHelp@cengage.com along with your Offer ID and Promotional Code (subject: Wikipedia).

A quick reminder about using the account: 1) try it out; 2) provide original citation information, in addition to linking to a Questia article; 3) avoid bare links to non-free Questia pages; 4) note "(subscription required)" in the citation, where appropriate. Examples are at WP:Questia/Citations.
Questia would love to hear feedback at WP:Questia/Experiences
Show off your Questia access by placing {{User:Ocaasi/Questia_userbox}} on your userpage
When the 1-year period is up, check the applications page to see if renewal is possible. We hope it will be.

Thanks for helping make Wikipedia better. Enjoy your research! Cheers, Ocaasi EdwardsBot (talk) 05:14, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Today's thought

Deciding where to put a new flowerbed is ground-breaking research. Pesky (talk) 05:18, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

**GROAN!** Why don't you start a subpage, linked at top, for those of us who actually will be amused by these? We could even subscribe! LOL Montanabw^(talk) 18:34, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Hehe! Pesky (talk) 05:00, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Cabals

Thanks for cleaning up a couple of the cabals I had uncovered. Hope all is well in your forest. ```Buster Seven Talk 05:27, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Hehe! That "barbeque" spelling drives me round the bend! I know it's kinda become "accepted" (huh!) because people have done that for so long, but I hate it! Bar-B-Q is fine by me, but for the real word it has to be barbecue. The other one reminds me about that "What's the waiting list for the blonde bimbo called? – the Barbie Queue" joke. Pesky (talk) 02:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

It's all but completely gone over to BBQ here in the USA, unless, of course, you are purchasing a $1000, propane-fired unit with side burners, in which case, it is called a "grill." (grin) Montanabw^(talk) 18:34, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

The best barbecue over here is the one they do over the branding fire at the late round-up. Pesky (talk) 04:59, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Signatures

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Signatures. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — RFC bot (talk) 01:17, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

A bowl of strawberries for you!

Thanks for your help with formatting. Pine^✉ 05:21, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Page Curation newsletter

Hey ThatPeskyCommoner. This will be, if not our final newsletter, one of the final ones :). After months of churning away at this project, our final version (apart from a few tweaks and bugfixes) is now live. Changes between this and the last release include deletion tag logging, a centralised log, and fixes to things like edit summaries.

Hopefully you like what we've done with the place; suggestions for future work on it, complaints and bugs to the usual address :). We'll be holding a couple of office hours sessions, which I hope you'll all attend. Many thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:58, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Page Curation update

Hey all :). We've just deployed another set of features for Page Curation. They include flyouts from the icons in Special:NewPagesFeed, showing who reviewed an article and when, a listing of this in the "info" flyout, and a general re-jigging of the info flyout - we've also fixed the weird bug with page_titles_having_underscores_instead_of_spaces in messages sent to talkpages, and introduced[1]! As always, these features will need some work - but any feedback would be most welcome.

Soy Rebelde

Hi, just wanted to let you know that I've copyedited Soy Rebelde. Please take a look and let me know if there's anything else you'd like reviewed. Thanks. AngusWOOF (talk) 02:42, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Task - or quest

If you believe in prayers, then pray. If you don't believe in prayers, then track down for us the world's foremost paediatric oncologist. The chap or chapess who's seen everything.

Littlest grandson had the whole of his left lung removed only a few weeks ago, as a result of one of the most aggressive cancers our local (excellent, specialist, one-of-the-tops) units has ever seen.

Despite them having removed every visible scrap of cancer (and a wide safety margin), it's grown back in the lung cavity to the extent that it's compressing his remaining lung. In just a few short weeks. It's an undifferentiated soft tissue sarcoma. And they don't (apparently, this type) produce secondaries in the brain. Despite which, he now has three tumours in the brain. (He's not even two, yet.) Our guys have never seen a cancer anything like this one. He's started chemo; they're doing everything they can for him, but input from the best guy / guy-ess in the world might also be helpful. Who knows, or knows of, the person we need? Pesky (talk) 17:12, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

I shall pray for him, and for his family.

Life has an end because it has a beginning, and that is the law of the universe, but whether it lasts a few years, a few decades, or a century, to us it seems the same. At our age, our childhood has faded and time passes much faster. For us, a year flashes past, for a child, a year is almost eternity. You can sit and watch the clock as a child and the hands take forever to pass from the morning until the evening. God makes time draw out and dilate for us so that every person, no matter their age, has a life that is about the same length, to their mind and memory. The first year, by the end of the first year, is a whole lifetime. The first ten years, looking back from your tenth birthday, is a full lifetime, and the first hundred years, looking back on your hundredth birthday, can seem a little too short really.

The quality of life is the one compensation God gives to us. If it is filled with some joy and some love, then that is a good life. That is all the luxury we can ask, that it be punctuated with some good thing every now and then to make it worthwhile. I do believe he has had some joys, and some love, and a good life, and that was more than so many get in this life. It is to be thankful for.

But it is time to be cheeky, and I will ask God for more on his behalf. Go and give him an extra kiss, an extra hug, and an extra smile. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

So sorry to hear this Pesky. My ignorant layman's guess is that the young chap may have a very unfortunate mutation resulting in much increased susceptibility (the brain tumour could be a second primary). Something akin to this maybe. Thinking of you, —MistyMorn (talk) 23:47, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Pesky, you have all of our prayers, and those who know you but don't pray are undoubtably preparing all proper pleas to the forces governing the known universe. Best hopes for the little fellow and strength to all who love him and have to be strong in these difficult times - including you. In the meantime, I will also point your experts to Sloan-Kettering in New York City; I hear they are one of the best on this side of the pond. Montanabw^(talk) 04:41, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Prayers for the baby, and for all of your family, Pesky, to have the strength and endurance to do whatever it is he needs in his life. St Jude Children's Research Hospital?(olive (talk) 04:55, 7 October 2012 (UTC))
Weinen, Klagen, I signed in to mention that in an article, I do it for the little one now and help praying for what is best, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:28, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Pesky--this is really sad. I gather he's rather young? It's always sad to lose a loved one and the younger they are the sadder. Best wishes. PumpkinSky talk 10:22, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
I am so sorry to hear about this, Pesky. The thoughts of your wiki friends and acquaintances are with you and your grandson. — Dianna (talk) 14:49, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, I hope your grandson pulls through. You could ask his current oncologists if they know any ofthese professionals(who I imagine may respond more quickly to a consultation request from a colleague than to a message from a prospective patient's family). AGK [•] 19:18, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Update: today, he is improving a little. He's said his first "proper words" in about a week, and seems to be in less pain. Many thanks for the suggestions and links, peoples (not to mention the good wishes and vibes); they are getting passed on. Pesky (talk) 20:05, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

The hopes, wishes and prayers of all the wikipedians who stalk your talk page are putting all the good vibes we can into the universe. All our love goes out to the little trouper! Courage to him and to all around him! Montanabw^(talk) 20:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Belatedly chiming in with best wishes to the poor wee mite, and hugs and sympathy for all the rest of the family - I can't offer any tame medics or divine contacts, but long-distance thoughts for you all. PamD 14:05, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, guys. All good wishes are passed on; daughter finds the idea that so many people she's never met being so caring is comforting, and wonderful. Pesky (talk) 18:40, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Dear Pesky, I'm so sorry to read this, just now. I cannot write about this without thinking of my daughter and starting to cry. I'm so sorry to hear about your grandson's battle, but I'm heartened that he's had some good signs. Love, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:23, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted you to know that ...

... you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers Pesky. — ChedZILLA 18:48, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you :o) Pesky (talk) 08:36, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

in necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas

I liked your bus parable. pablo 08:33, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! Pesky (talk) 08:36, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Love for Pesky

	Love for Pesky
	Hugs! Pine^✉08:40, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Hugs to you, too. Pesky (talk) 11:30, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh, dear! Am I truly bad?

I have to say that there is a kind of deep joy to be had in being able to write "Fucking selfish cunt" on a Wikipedia page. Just as an illustration, of course. Pesky (talk) 11:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Something to think about?

I read something to think about?, with interest.

I added an item to my To Do list, specifically:

Propose, at the idea lab, a way to separate the complete block log, with all the gory details, from a summary. See [2] for some thoughts.

My intended goal, although not clearly stated in that summary, is to ensure that we do keep the entire history of blocks, even the bad ones, but also show a summary, which would exclude expunged blocks. This way we could eat our cake and have it, to. The historical record isn't hidden, but a glace at someone's block log will give a more realistic picture of their background.

My To-do list, unfortunately, seems to acquire new items faster than I can address them, so I don't know when or if I will get to it.--SPhilbrick (Talk) 16:45, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, those so much needs to be done. At the moment when our "judges" look at "sentencing", every accusation, every conviction overturned at appeal, every miscarriage of justice, is viewed as just another in a long list of convictions. And our "judges" (bog-standard Joe Bloggs editors, not just admins)constantly drag up the entire record, and use quantity, rather than quality, as their criteria for assessment. Pesky (talk) 07:49, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

We have no rule of law on wikipedia; your sentence is never deferred or expunged. No redemption, and you pay for your sins forever. It's more like Old Testament sin, you're in trouble forever and no matter how many lambs and goats you sacrifice, it's never enough. The wages of sin appears to be death! (said tongue in cheek, but I'm sure as shit not inspired to do a RfA) Montanabw^(talk) 21:12, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

That's rather a good analogy Montanabw. Malleus Fatuorum 22:18, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Why thank you, Malleus! :-) Montanabw^(talk) 22:31, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

As it happens I'm much more Old Testament than New Testament myself; fuck turning the other cheek for a game of soldiers. Oh, and please try to refrain from using profanities such as "shit"; don't want to cause the civility police to start swooning. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 22:39, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Any update ?

How is he doing ?

Is it looking like the chemo is working, or are they thinking back to surgery, or talking of palliative care ? Penyulap ☏ 00:23, 13 Oct 2012 (UTC)

He's had one course of Doxorubicin and Ifosfamide (with methylene blue), which has had a good impact so far. He's been eating and drinking a bit (daughter was over the moon when he stole her cake!), and is clearly feeling improved in himself. He's now going to have (may have just started) a course ofVincristine, to halt / reduce the growth of the brain tumours until his next D/I course. He's also had a blood transfusion as his cell count was a bit low after the chemo. These things are always a roller-coaster ride; he is likely to get worse before he gets better, but at least we know that his canceris responding to the chosen chemo regimen. Pesky (talk) 07:53, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Bouncy bakery bandit. It might seem strange, but that is what I feel is the most important part, the quality of life more than and above all else.

Prayer works, it is scientific fact, and stranger still is it works regardless of the target individual's beliefs or lack thereof. Still, I am more sceptical of 'western' medicine than faith. Pills and tablets are fantastic if you have access to them, but there are stronger forces that nothing can compare with.

In Indonesia, the birth of a child is not the greatest cause for celebration. The first birthday is. Making it to that milestone is more important than any western '21st birthday' party, something that goes unnoticed in Indonesia. It has to be remembered and focused on that life is not easy, life is suffering most of the time, otherwise we forget to celebrate and lose sight of what is most precious. Penyulap ☏ 11:35, 13 Oct 2012 (UTC)

In the western world, Penyulap, we have seen some very good things happening when you combine "nontraditional" things (prayer, good diet, massage therapy, etc.) with traditional chemo; the idea being that you strengthen the healthy aspects of the body while also allowing the drugs to do what they are designed to do; the alternative therapies often reduce the side effects. And we westerners are really quite stubborn about the value of each individual. Here's hoping the best for the little fellowMontanabw^(talk)21:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

I have great faith in proven medicine; I've also seen some scientifically-almost-inexplicable things happen through prayer, "good vibes" (or whatever one wants to call them), and non-trad-medicine approaches. I'm entirely in agreement with Montana. One thing I've noticed with all young / infant animals (humans included) is that it's impossible to place a value on cuddles. I'm not sure what it is about cuddles and hugs (and even hand-holding for injured adult strangers; I'm a first aider and always do the warm, gentle hand-holding as well as the trad-first-aid approach), but it works. Poor baby, though, now has some of the chemo side-effects: his mouth and lips are getting ulcers. But they are keeping well on top of his pain. Hugs to all of you, and to all my TPSs. Pesky (talk) 06:56, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

I once woke up while under light anesthesia for eye surgery. Had a wise surgical nurse not held my hand immediately, I definitely would have freaked. As it was, I started babbling and the genius surgeon started to yell at me. That was not helpful, for sure, I started crying (with a numbed eyeball, but knowing I had at least three sharp objects sticking out of it...) Give the little fellow extra hugs from all his wiki-supporters! We'd send them long-distance if we could! Montanabw^(talk) 19:20, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Peace

The good (evil) Dr. and MF have returned to status quo ante bellum. I doubt that your comment will inflame things, but it may get you dropped into a piranha tank!

(Maybe you missed the time-stamp...?)

The family is well. Chubby cheeks brought longer periods of sleep. :) Now she cries mainly when she wants to play pat-a-cake, rather than just wanting to be held.

Kiwis cause colic. :(

Life is good. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:19, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm prepared to take the risk on the piranha tank ;P It can be nothing compared to what Real Life™ is throwing at us at the moment. I'm delighted that your family is well :D Fennel tea is good for colic, whether in infants or adults. By one of those spooky coincidences, I was thinking of you (and family) literally a few moments ago! I have either a fit of giggles or an opportunity to go down in history for you ...

Let there be a book

Let it be written pseudonymously by Wikipedian mathematicians

Let it be tested in the home environment

Let it tell The Truth™ and The Whole Truth™

Let it do so in terms which mere infants can wholly comprehend and discuss

Let it bring forth a whole generation of mathematical prodigies

Let it be entitled "Sharon Borderline's Differential Calculus for Three-Year-Olds"

Pesky (talk) 11:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

That was great! :)

We just want a happy baby. Maybe she will be a dancer? She loves Music Box Dancer and KC and the Sunshine Band! On the other hand, she loves Paul Robeson's Negro spirituals, especially "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot": If she wants to sing them, we need to move quickly to Peru or the Himalayas! You've never seen a baby burp-a until you've seen a post-nursing Sherpa.... ;) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:05, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Page Curation newsletter - closing up!

Hey all :).

We're (very shortly) closing down this development cycle for Page Curation. It's genuinely been a pleasure to talk with you all and build software that is so close to my own heart, and also so effective. The current backlog is 9 days, and I've never seen it that low before.

However! Closing up shop does not mean not making any improvements. First-off, this is your last chance to give us a poke about unresolved bugs or report new ones on the talkpage. If something's going wrong, we want to know about it :). Second, we'll hopefully be taking another pass over the software next year. If you've got ideas for features Page Curation doesn't currently have, stick themhere.

Again, it's been an honour. Thanks :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 12:03, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Editing policy

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in therequest for comment on Wikipedia talk:Editing policy. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. —RFC bot (talk) 03:17, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Motion of no confidence...

In case you've missed it, there's lots of "no confidence" discussionshere. Worm^TT(talk) 10:20, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I missed it. There is still white-hot steam coming out of my ears and a number of other orifices. I shall read that, and possibly contribute (provided that I haven't been blocked for incivility-to-arbs in the meantime). Pesky (talk) 10:32, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

The entire case has lead to more incivility than I have ever seen on the encyclopedia, from a large number of editors. I would be surprised if your comments lead to a block. You may want to fiddle with your comment title so that it is "view by Pesky", as Arbitration wonkery dictates. On the upside, it's less than a month to the elections, and hopefully we'll get a bit more of a turn out this year. Hope you and family are well.Worm^TT(talk) 10:37, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

It absolutely disgusts me, the way there's been such an abuse of process. I'll change that heading. Family? Well, poor little grandson had to go back to theatre so they could drain |fluid from around his heart, then spent another night in PICU. But he's holding his own at present, and the tumour which can be felt from outside seems to be shrinking. It's just a case of whether the chemo regime can keep up with (better still, overtake) the rate of growth of the cancer. Pesky (talk) 10:41, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Times like these, it's better to let friends and colleagues handle problems and work, and to spend time with your family. A grandmother's hugs will help the whole family. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:02, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Pesky

It looks like we're on the same page regarding the shitstorm [3], [4] (no surprise there!) – mind if I steal your Wikibreak header box? Also, I have been following your family's trials, thoughts and hugz for that – I'd have said something before but I've had distractions of my own, though nothing so heart-wrenching as that at present. Sending good vibes to you anyway! Nortonius (talk) 11:16, 23 October 2012 (UTC) 'Tis done! A friend calls mild abuse of a facebook friend's account "furglary", so I suppose this was "Wurglary"!

Hehe! Not Wurglary, but a gift. Many thanks for the vibes, hugz and all. Talking of Facebook, my son's recent post is great ;P

"Before criticising someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you're a mile away from them ... and you have their shoes ..." Pesky (talk) 12:59, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Haha that's good, I just shared it with my son, he had a lol too! And thanks for the gift! Nortonius (talk) 15:49, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Animal sanctuary and mandatory truce zone

Pesky, please take the mandatory truce zone with you when you sally out; you are valued for it. These comments seem belligerent and extreme to me. And ineffectual too, I should think. The mere effusion of steam isn't likely to accomplish much. Bishonen | talk 11:51, 23 October 2012 (UTC).

Meh. It's how I feel, really. If someone asks you to prune the roses for them, it shouldn't be seen as carte blanche to destroy an acre of ancient and ornamental woodland. And Real Life™ is shite, and I'm consequently a bit more outspoken than I usually am, I suppose. And I suppose, in a way, if anyone realises that if something is "bad enough to make Pesky steam" then it must be baaaaad, the steam might be useful. Not that I expect the offenders to have enough wit to realise that. You do, though ;P Pesky (talk) 12:56, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that civility would have any impact in that situation, either. But what does concern me is where does the mob go once they lose their main target? Who will be next? Intothat darkness 14:03, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

The truce zone is this talk page, Pesky can have strong views anywhere else, and I have to admit that wiki is into more than full-blown silly season. It's like the French Directory these days, having a clear "off with their heads" feel. People are banned, indeffed and otherwise "executed" with no appeal, no parole and no pardons. And their next target? Us, of course... all that is not mandatory is forbidden. Montanabw^(talk) 21:36, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. No one seems willing to address the provokers and civilPOV pushers, or some of the other issues that have been raised in various places. I know I'm not a huge contributor...I tend to dabble more in areas that interest me, and even then erratically. But what I seem in terms of both mob mentality and general twisting of policy and principle makes me even less likely to up my contributions. Which I'm sure is fine. There appears to be much more interest in retaining a "civil" POV pusher than there is in keeping any other sort of user. Intothat darkness 21:48, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps that's at least in part because the site is largely administered by those without much experience of either life or content creation, and it's therefore difficult for them to spot POV pushers. whereas of course any clot can detect a swear word. Malleus Fatuorum 15:45, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I think there's something to that. I think it may also come down to idealism. If they really believe that every civil POV pusher is trying to improve the encyclopedia, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, they'll always assume good faith. But cursing... That's the easy (and IMO lazy) call. No need to think or shed idealism. Intothat darkness 14:05, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

It's like the goddamn place is being taken over by a machine. There's a big difference in being wise and merely being smart. Gandydancer (talk) 16:42, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Don't bail on us ITD! I need ya on the remount articles! Desperately! My take has always been, "take breaks as needed, but stay in there and outlast the F****rs! Montanabw^(talk) 22:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Except that the *bleepers* seem to get replaced with even more strident *bleepers* around here. There is a danger in groupthink, especially when the little knights-errant think they've managed to slay a couple of big, nasty dragons. Lots of content here needs work, especially in the areas that interest me. But I'm just not sure it's worth the effort. And with the horrid abuse of power that seems to be the norm (and even expected and encouraged by more than a few) it's even less welcoming. I can deal with cursing and the like...it's pedantic little buggers who don't know squat about what they're editing that constantly push their ignorance on you that really gets to me. Intothat darkness 22:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

And the dragons are considered nasty trolls if they even consider daring to speak out against this abusive and corrupting system. Those such as Jclemens who have utter faith in the moral imperative of the five pillars would do well to acquaint themselves with the antinomian controversies, and particularly with the controversy in 17th-century Massachusetts, which resulted in a great many people being banished from the colony: "the victory to the conservative party ensured that religious orthodoxy would be the intellectual focus of the community". Obviously nothing has been learned since then, but perhaps it gives us a glimpse into the roots of Wikipedia's cultish obsession with adherence to the rule of law. Malleus Fatuorum 22:49, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

last straw

I would post this under my old username, but it's too late. For some of us, a civil environment in which to edit is in fact important. So, count me as an editor you, KW, MF, etc have driven away. Given the attitudes of a number of the other participants there, this will be no loss, as I only have a few thousand edits. 12.192.102.2 (talk) 15:25, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

And do you seriously believe that this deceitful nonsense of yours is conducive to the civil environment you claim to desire so earnestly? Really? Malleus Fatuorum 15:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

lovely and charming, to the last. 12.192.102.2 (talk) 15:58, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

You have an account, yet you choose to make this posting using an IP address, thus ensuring your claim that you were driven away by "KW, MF, etc." can't be checked. What else would you call that but deceitful? Malleus Fatuorum 16:58, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Cowardly and boring? In a fable, the last straw breaks the back of a donkey.... Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:18, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Don't presume to know anything at all about me.12.192.102.2 (talk) 18:45, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Apart from the fact that you're currently staying at the Kansas City Marriott do you mean, and are therefore very likely to be an American? Malleus Fatuorum 19:22, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall

And the bells in the steeple too

And up in the Marriot an absurd little bird

Is popping out to say "cuckoo"

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night. Giano (talk) 20:09, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Good grief. So, count me as an editor you, KW, MF, etc have driven away. Me? Drove someone away by being uncivil? I think you may possibly have mistaken me for someone else. Pesky (talk) 07:19, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Me, maybe. I'd say that if you can be driven away but come back as an anon IP, y'all just performed a community service! Montanabw^(talk) 22:46, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Ok then, count me as an editor driven away by the ~~Vice Squad~~ Civility Gamers; as one of those whose patience with incompetence, stolidity, and intellectual dishonesty ran out at some point. I feel like such a Facebook protester, but what can you do besides registering your dissent and pointing out the obvious? --81.173.237.215 (talk) 00:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Values, and meritocracy, and stuff like that

I look around at the houses, and at the furniture, which was built hundreds of years ago, and I look around at what's been built recently.

The old, oak-frame houses built in the 15th Century onwards are still standing. I have, here at home, solid timber furniture which belonged to my grandparents, and to their parents. I'm sitting next to an 1897 Steinway piano which has seen (and been played by) five generations of my family. I don't consider it to be "mine" – I'm just holding it in trust for future generations of my family. And all this stuff has dents, scratches, light-faded bits, and so on. But it's solid timber, and will go on for several more generations yet.

And I also look around at the pre-fab buildings put up in the 1960's and 70's. I see what happens to the MFI, Ikea, Magnet, B&Q, Homebase, and all the rest, flat-pack furniture. And, personally, I prefer solid timber, complete with all the surface blemishes, to any amount of chipboard covered with even the shiniest, glossiest oak-effect laminated veneer. If we want to build quality, and be surrounded by quality, no amount of squirting Mr Sheen onto the surface-shiny thin veneer is ever going to get over the fact that it's all naff chipboard underneath. What we seem to be working towards, in this community, is getting the prettiest civilisation-effect veneer on the surface. That's not the way to get good stuff.

It's quite incredibly shortsighted, lacking in insight and foresight, to send the dented and scratched solid oak stuff down to the dump and replace it with twenty times as much prettified oak-effect veneered chipboard. Your grandchildren will see what you did there. Pesky (talk) 09:21, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Robert Fripp: "A quality spreads. We may never see the consequences and the repercussions of any act of quality. We may be confident that right action, a quality action, generates just consequences."

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:47, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

In Sweden, IKEA is known as a place for cheap goods, some of which last. It is especially popular with young couples and families. In the USA, it was one of the first corporations to advertise to gay and lesbian couples, also, according to 60 Minutes. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:16, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I love Ikea's solid timber stuff. As and when the quick-build fixings go, they can be replaced by traditional fixings – morticed joints, dowels, etc. But the timber itself will last, despite dents, knocks, scratches and so on. But once scratch through the veneer on the other stuff, it will never look good again. Pesky (talk) 19:11, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Strange thoughts for a Wikibreakee

If I had the time, and some release from the pressures of Real Life™ (which has to take priority, under the circumstances), I actually think I'd make a very good Arb. I'd probably get outvoted consistently, but I could always be relied upon to vote in line with my principles. And not to be tempted to do what is easy, as opposed to what is right. Huge systemic abuses are far more important and damaging than little personal abuses. We need, I think, more tolerance of the infinite variations of the individuals we have here, so long as they are not damaging content, or undermining the integrity of what our millions of readers read. We need more tolerance of differences in culture, though the Americans will always outvote the Brits and Europeans. We need to be an awful lot less over-reactive to silly little petty things. We need to stamp out abuses of power. We need to look at the reasons behind people's actions, and address the reasons, rather than stifling the reactions, where possible. We need to treat the disease, not amputate the limb with the symptoms. We don't need a Nanny State with ever more oppressive and tyrannical powers. They say: "Be wary of those who seek to take care of you, lest your caretakers become your jailers." I think we need an ArbCom with more sensible, level-headed, not over-reactive females, and more non-Americans. ;P I also think we need ArbCom to be split 50/50 between admins and non-admins, to reduce the Admin-mindset weighting.

What do you guys think? Pesky (talk) 09:38, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

And what do we think about having a minimum requirement of (average) 750 article-space edits per year to qualify as being an Arb? And to maintain at least 75 article-space edits per month while being an Arb, to continue to be an Arb? And any Arb with less than 75 article-space edits in the previous month can't !vote? Or weighting of Arb !votes in relation to article-space edits (so those with twice as many article-space edits in the previous calendar month get a !vote that counts double, etc. .....) Pesky (talk) 10:39, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Since hardening my resolve to run again, I’ve been watching the Arbitration discussions with interest. However, we’re never going to get that perfect cross section of the community you suggest. When there’s a 90:10 male female split, we’re not going to get a 50:50 Arbcom. Similarly with the ratio of Europeans to Americans. As for the admin/non-admin split… The reality of the situation is that an editor who cannot gain sufficient support to pass an RfA (don’t get me started on that, you know my feelings there), how are they ever going to be elected to Arbcom. Both are political and based on friends and enemies as far as I can see.
You talk of tolerance – something I find interesting. I believe I’m one of the more tolerant members of the community. Many find me a soft touch, and anyone who has watched has seen how much effort I’ve put in over the years to work with less productive members of our community. I would never expect other editors to spend the time I do on helping these less productive members, as it takes time away from useful work.
As for your numbers, are you aware that in the last year, you’ve missed the “75 article-space” edits in 6 out of the 12 months? I fall much further below, and that’s without the constant emails you get in Arbcom (I’m hearing that it’s more than 100 a day) regarding the junk that we ‘’don’t’’ see, plus the fact you are expected to follow every dispute on Wikipedia and then follow all the mad bureaucracy involved in arbitration, commenting coherently on every single discussion… There’s a further issue of skill sets, I’d rather people who are not great at writing were not writing, but were helping the encyclopedia. For example, I don’t want people who are good at sorting out disputes to be writing substandard trivial articles on their favourite TV show characters.
So, Pesky, how many female, non-admin, Europeans, who have the level of tolerance you’re looking for, the level of article contributions you are looking for, manage real life and want to become an arb? I personally count 0. Which skillset would you be willing to budge on, to get to the magic 8? If managing Real Life is one you’re willing to budge on… why not run? Worm^TT(talk) 11:33, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Seemingly unrelated thoughts (this non-admin European female is known for them): your premise "When the incompetent can out-vote the intelligent, we have a problem." is true, was true, will be true until the end of time. I stay, for Reformation (link on my user, under the title pic) - Bach cantata BWV 79 is in prep for Reformation day tomorrow, in the midst of Halloween ;) - I miss you and others. Feel free to join the my red cat. - To the other question: I haven't found out yet, what the arbs are good for, sorry, I am with 28bytes there, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Of course any measure of number of edits is pretty unreliable, as some editors click "save" after every tiny change and others use "preview" a few times before saving a comprehensive reworking of a page!PamD 13:26, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Agree that more non-Admin representation would be a good thing. I have to say, though, that I'm getting tired of seeing Americans generically classed as not being tolerant of cultural differences. Hard to complain about people using the term "posse" and the like when you're doing it yourself... A dick is a dick, regardless of national origin or gender. I mod on another, historical board, and one of our least-tolerant members is German. I'd say it's more important to look past national origin and select Arbs who are people of character. Quotas are never a good thing when it comes to that stuff, IMO. Intothat darkness 14:13, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

If you promise to read most of the important previous cases (I think Newyorkbrad and Carcharoth would give you a reading list if you asked), I'd definitely vote for you. I'd oppose mandatory article editing while arbitrating: you might get very busy, and I'd rather you focused your wikitime on cases for duration. Edit articles if you have loose time, but mandatory would be a mistake, I think. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 14:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:36, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Hehe! The reason I've never run for Nadminship is that I just don't "do" Nadminny things, and I'd have virtually no use for the tools. That doesn't in the slightest mean that I'd be untrustworthy if I had them, just that I'm not interested in most of the adminny stuff. If adminship really were no big deal, and it was awarded to everyone who could be trusted not to abuse the tools, regardless of how much need they seem to have for them, I'd probably have been awarded it a while ago (I hope!) So, provided someone is trustworthy, then whether or not they have a requirement for Nadminny tools, they should be fine to be an Arb. Loads of people who never want to be a Nadmin might well make very good Arbs.

With regard to article-space edits, I know I've been waaaaay behind. Up until May, being full-time carer for a parent with severe dementia ate into my time and emotional resources; then, within weeks of her dying in May (and funeral arrangements and so on ate a lot of time and emotional resources), my younger son went down with a life-threatening pulmonary embolism. And then, of course, Leon (not yet two) got cancer, diagnosed in August, and has been in hospital pretty much ever since. And we have to clear all my parents' 5-decades'-worth of assorted stuff, and move house (twice!) too. That's what I mean about Real Life taking up time, and taking priority. If I can summon up the motivation, I may some time get around to doing the stuff I intended. With article stuff, apart from typo-fixing something I happen to be reading, I tend to opt for quality rather than quantity. I only have one FA, I only have two (?) GA's, not counting the one that's an FA now, I've only had 2 (I think) DYK's, though one of them got around 10,000 hits. But, right at the minute, I feel that something really drastic happened to upholding the principles which I expect from community-governance. Things like serious attention to exactly what question was being asked. Things like abuse of process and power. I dunno, at the moment. I really dunno. Maybe when (if?) things have settled down, and we've finished moving house ... Pesky (talk) 17:21, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

... oh, yeh ... I had two operations this year, too; one of them pretty major ... heh! Forgot about those! (And I've only just realised that my editing prefs seem to be set to marking everything as "minor". Must change that) Pesky (talk) 17:31, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Your real life is more than most people's first, second AND third lives! Really, you should run, I want to see how much stress any single human can endure! (out to buy more popcorn...)! =:-O Montanabw^(talk) 19:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

'tis the season

I got some as a gift, ready to share --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:38, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Our family doctors, who are wonderful people, say they have no idea how the family has coped through this past year! Somehow, one finds either the strength or the sheer bloody-mindedness to keep on keeping on. As for the Arb thing, maybe next year. Or the year afterwards, depending what else lies in store for us over the coming year. Certainly not this year: far, far too much going on this year. I will keep a watching brief on what happens throughout the 'pedia to see if it's tolerable, and if any sense surfaces.

I'd love to add the following to the Civility policy, though:

Never over-react to incivility. Over-reaction causes far more disruption than almost any form of minor incivility: it polarises the community into battling factions and wastes hundreds of editor-hours. It leaves everyone far more damaged than the original incivility, and merely generates more ill-feeling from more people.

If someone is getting into an incivility tiff, piling-on with accusations and dragging up old history, jumping onto an "Off with his head!" bandwagon, is escalation at its worst. If the accused person wasn't uncivil to you personally, if you weren't involved in the original minor spat which started it, then unless your intent is to de-escalate and encourage everyone to take a breather, walk away, and calm down, then stay out of it. Pesky (talk) 05:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedians

You seem not to have joined the Category:Wikipedians who are not a Wikipedian, which is being discussed at its entry at Categories nominated for deletion.

Given your above comments, you may wish to join the category Category:Wikipedians working towards even enforcement of civility.

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:03, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Yup, that one I have always been interested in. And when I mean "even enforcement", I particularly like the idea of "civility violations per 1,000 edits" to be assessed for all contributors to any discussion on civility enforcement ... with their own personal ratios illustrated alongside their comments, and having removed from anyone's block log any block which was clearly a bad block, inappropriate, came from an involved admin, or any other of that long list of Highly Debatable Blocks. Pesky (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I moved your category to the user page. I did the same for your Harry Potter category, but it seems to be a side effect of the user-box. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:33, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Doing the usual, ineffective stuff ...

I posted on Jimbo's talk. Seriously, deeply concerned. Pesky (talk) 08:27, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

US Election today. Everyone is a bit crazy. Give it a few days and see if things settle down in wiki-land too. Montanabw^(talk) 18:11, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Heh! Maybe I should have guessed ... by the way, poor old SenileCat has just been officially diagnosed blind. Two detached retinas ... just another thing to add to Real Life stuff. And I'm brewing a chest infection ... Pesky (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

You too? I've got a bug. Seems an ill wind blowing everywhere. Montanabw^(talk) 21:55, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

No kidding. Been fighting one here, too. Intothat darkness 15:31, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Blech! Feel lousy ...

I hate chest infections! And it means I can't visit my daughter and my (neutropenic, because of chemotherapy) grandson until I'm well again :o(

We moved Cuddles' viv from the (cold) garage into the (warmer) house yesterday. Unless you've carried one around, you have no idea just how heavy and unwieldy a (wriggly!) nearly-nine-foot boa constrictor (with a few behavioural issues) can be! Pesky (talk) 06:59, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Thinking of you, my image of resilience, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:07, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Bless you! Sadly, almost none of the family could go to his second birthday party, on the cancer ward, this week; most of us are carrying bugs around with us, and something relatively minor for us is a real danger to children with severely compromised immune systems.

It's inevitable, but pointless, to ask ourselves "Why is life so shitty? Why does an innocent toddler get an aggressive cancer, with a poor prognosis; why does a baby like that have to have a whole lung removed, why does he have to go back to theatre to have fluid drained from around his heart, why does he have to be in so much pain, why does the cancer have to grow right back in a few weeks, why does he have to get tumours in his brain as well, why does this have to happen to the daughter who has serious health issues of her own and weighs only about 7 stone, and now has little time or facility to look after herself? Why?" Because nobody knows why. It's just shitty. Pesky (talk) 07:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Like they say: "Fuck that shit." Somehow we just have to find the resilience to cope with it. Pesky (talk) 07:36, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking of you and your family. I wish I could do more, but I'll be here across the pond hoping for a miracle and hoping that your family will get respite. All the best from me and my family. Lots of e-hugs, Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 07:46, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

All my thoughts and prayers Pesky. — ChedZILLA 15:45, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
So sorry Pesky and I wish you all the best outcomes for all of this. Life is truly unfathomable. Mind you, you're on your own with that snake. I do love all animals but snakes tend to run nearer the bottom of the list rather than the top the way baby ratties do. You can see the dilemma :O). Feel better and wishing you blessings and more of the great strength you already have shown. I can't begin to imagine how difficult this all is. (olive (talk) 16:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC))

That's very sad news. Pesky, about 90% of cancer pain can be well-controlled or eliminated. It isn't well-managed in about half of cases though, even in the developed world. Something the family can do is familiarise themselves with what to expect in terms of pain, and the pain management options, and satisfy themselves your toddler is in the 50% that gets optimal palliative care. (Love is a hugely important element.) I've written a brief introduction here. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 16:21, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Dear Pesky,

I'm very sorry to read about the setback. Watching Shadowlands always results in some heartfelt tearing, and in the old days a good cry. I wish that Dumbledore's phoenix would make you a visit! Love, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:47, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

So sorry to hear this Pesky. Genes just naturally ignore human feelings of justice. Needing to look after one another the best we can, I think Anthony's advice is sound. With best wishes to you and your family, —MistyMorn (talk) 18:38, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

On the whole, they're coping with his pain very well. But just recently he's been having problems with nausea, and he's upchucked after oral meds a few times; not knowing how much he's absorbed, they then can't top him up. It's better when it can go through his Hickman line. The chemo is a kinda two steps forward, one step back progression at the moment, as the cancer is so very aggressive (already re-growing by the time his next chemo is due), and he's having to have blood transfusions to keep his red cell count up. But he's been smiling recently :D And his first "proper" sentence for ages (if not ever) was when he looked at the laptop and said "Oh look! Facebook!" Bless! The changes that technology has made to our first words, eh?! We're all keeping our fingers crossed that he will pull through, but the stats on undifferentiated soft tissue sarcomas are not encouraging. BTW, the image on that article is him, before the lung-removal. Many thanks for all the best wishes, it really does help.

@Anthony: nice article! One of the biggest problems with a little 'un like Leon (second birthday on Monday) is that it's very hard to tell when he's in pain, or just feeling totally pissed off. And with cancer in the cavity left by his removed lung, we have to be terribly careful not to over-do the morphine and suppress his breathing, as his other lung is under pressure both from mass effect and from having to do all the work. Having said that, he's off his extra oxygen just at the moment - going through a slightly better patch. Pesky (talk) 19:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear it. Wishing you lots of love. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 22:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I think that I wrote you and told you that my mother was in a similar position. Anti-euthanasia laws prohibited increasing morphine after her heart rate decreased sufficiently. Luckily, she seemed not to have pain when she passed, and her breathing was peaceful the last 2 hours. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:27, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Poor baby! Hugs to Pesky and hope that you and your entire family will continue to have the love and support for one another that you've had and will grow ever closer and kinder with each passing day. The little fellow is teaching us all a lot about courage and good humor in tough circumstances and all the blessings in the world to him! That said, when it comes to your Cuddles, better you than me! Montanabw^(talk) 19:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Please note: I'm inserting the following (with a subst'd sig); this isn't socking! Sent to me via email. Pesky (talk) 06:59, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Pesky, I wanted to offer a thought that helps me to make sense of it in my life. You're most welcome to add it to your page if you think others might benefit as well.

Pesky, There may not be any answers to why life is short and life is suffering, but when I lose someone close, and when I look at the very precarious future to be faced, I do see one thing clear enough. God reminds us of what is important in life, to stop us in the daily routines and to think that tomorrow we may be gone. Those that go are fast forgotten. The only chance we have to live is today, and every single day knowing where my life is leading makes me yearn all the more for the small mercies that god gives us, every day that you are sick you curse and you wish and you would 'give anything if only' but today when you don't have that sickness, don't have food poisoning or burns or stabbing pain, you forget everything and find some stupid distraction to obsess over. People often and too quickly choose to live the life of bad people, forgetting that the life of a bad person sucks. Nobody likes you. The life of a good person is much much better, so when are you going to live that life ? in the next life, the one after that, the 100th after that one ? God reminds us that today is the day to be kind and to love and to help. When he shows us that tomorrow our bodies will fall back into the soil, and everything we had hoped for and hoped to do and hoped to be and hoped to love will rot away into the Earth. The only day is today. There is no other day. No brilliant investment or the most outstanding scientific breakthrough will ever change the inevitable sunset upon our existence. The sun will go down, it always does, and no flurry of activity before sunset will ever change it. Today is the day to live life as though it mattered. That is why I believe God takes from us, and why he chooses at random. Most days I simply wonder why nobody listens, including me. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 8 Nov 2012 (UTC) Pesky (talk) 06:59, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Thinking of you Pesky and wondering how the little one is doing. All best wishes to you and your family.(olive (talk) 17:19, 16 November 2012 (UTC))

Little 'un is a little better. He's due for more chemo starting Monday, was actually allowed home for a few hours to see his big bro today, then back to hospital overnight, then will be home tomorrow again and stay overnight, then return to hosp. in time for his Monday chemo. Still has NG tube in but is off TPN at the moment. Strong little chap – a real fighter. Must run in the family ... Pesky (talk) 21:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

The apple doesn't fall...:O)...and good to hear.(olive (talk) 21:47, 16 November 2012 (UTC))

Blessings to you and to the little fellow, Pesky. Prayers and all other kinds of good feelings heading across the pond to you and yours! Montanabw^(talk) 22:31, 16 November 2012 (UTC)