User talk:Spanneraol/Archive6

Harry Ely (baseball)

Spannerol, as the creator of Harry Ely (baseball) and, incidentally, the one who placed the hatnote on Harry Ely, I was wondering if you could head over to User talk:Jweiss11#Harry Ely and chime in. Several of us suspect these two Harry Elys are actually one in the same, but none of us are predominant baseball fans (most are college football, and I am college basketball). Your baseball contributions lead me to believe you might have some information on this guy that would crack the case. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 23:01, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I dropped a note on the baseball project page also in case others have more info here. Spanneraol (talk) 23:34, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Justin Orenduff for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Justin Orenduff is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Orenduff (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. —Bagumba (talk) 23:13, 21 July 2011 (UTC

Speedy deletion nomination of John Gamble (baseball)

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A tag has been placed on John Gamble (baseball) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Eduemoni^↑talk↓ 19:24, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Just wanted to let you know that I saw that you created the new article 2012 Tampa Bay Rays season-- Jipinghe (talk) 18:28, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Deletion

CS is the flip side of SB, put it in context, avoids POV issues, and in the ref is reflected on the leaderboards the same way SB is. And it is a big part of this ballplayers "stolen bases" story -- see, e.g., this entire article ("Dodgers will let Matt Kemp run again, to a point; Kemp, who stole 34 bases in 2009 but was successful only 19 out of 34 times last season, has the green light to go again this year. But baserunning coach Davey Lopes will monitor the situation.") devoted in a major RS to the issue. And this one ("The Numbers: Matt Kemp is great everywhere but the basepaths"); again devoted to the same issue. Frankly, if it is not restored as it was, there is more than enough text to add fulsome text on the subject. I think it appropriate to include there.--Epeefleche (talk) 04:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Those sources are from early in the season and dont accurately reflect his performance during the year.. adding caught stealing in this manner without any context creates an inaccurate portrayal of his performance on the base paths.. It is not a stat that is often reported in year end reports on ballplayers the way the other numbers are and I'm surprised you are so determined to add it. The article on Michael Bourn doesnt mention that he led the league in that category.. We have an article on stolen base champs but not caught stealing champs.. its usually a byproduct of stealing a lot.. should not be included. Spanneraol (talk) 13:46, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm happy to add it to the Bourn article; I think it belongs there as well. This is well in keeping with out NPOV policy. It is the flip side of SB, and puts SB in context. Deletion of it presents the SB without context. If you prefer, I'll add text using the articles devoted to this issue--it is not a minor factoid, as reflected in the fact that RSs devote entire articles to it primarily. Insisting on deleting it is like insisting on reflecting that a ballplayer is high on the leaderboards in walks, but deleting that he is high on the leaderboards in strikeouts. Anyway, as I said -- even though I feel it is NPOV to reflect it as it was, I'll shift the mention to reflecting the RS articles on it, and reflecting it in text if you prefer, out of respect (though I continue to think the original approach is the more NPOV and better one).--Epeefleche (talk) 19:02, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the original approach is more POV than leaving it out... and like I said your sources are about the very beginning of the season.. he was caught much less frequently as the season went on... to leave it as you want it weighs it more strongly than it should be and definitely slants an opinion that he is a sucky base stealer.. which may have been the case in previous years but not so much this year... so i'm not sure why your trying to push that pov.... Barry Bonds article doesnt talk about how often he was caught during his 40-40 season.. cause it isnt really important.. and it isnt here either. Spanneraol (talk) 21:12, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I'll respect you so I'll mull the matter over some more. But I am having more difficulty understanding why reflecting CS -- reflected on the referenced leaderboards -- as we reflect the flip side (SB) is POV. For the reasons stated above. I find it to be just the opposite. I recognize that you are by leaps and bounds the main contributor to his article, and respect that, but please note that this is not an effort to describe him as "sucky" -- if you look at all my other edits, they only focus on his positive contributions and clean up the article -- but to be NPOV. In any event, would I be correct in believing that you would have no problem with text, reflecting the two articles devoted to the topic, reflecting when in the seasons they were written? Just a short sentence (I would be happy for you to craft it if you like).--Epeefleche (talk) 14:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

I'll think about it for a bit.. figure out a way to write about his baserunning... would need to include material from last season.... I'll figure something out. Spanneraol (talk) 21:02, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. I recognize that you are one of our best baseball writers, and also that you have done an excellent job bringing this article to where it stands now. I'm sure whatever you come up with will be fine. If you need more articles, I'm happy to help. Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 21:27, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

You have mail...

There's a note for you at talk:2011 Tampa Bay Rays season. Thanks... Zeng8r (talk) 16:55, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

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Thanks

Just wanted to say thanks for the info on the 40 man roster in baseball (Jose Capellan). The info will surely help me decide in other baseball related articles for deletion discussions. PolicarpioM (talk) 09:03, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Miami Marlins players category

Don't know if you're watching CfD, but I went ahead and moved all the Miami Marlins players into two new categories, so we should be good to use that category for the MLB team without an issue. -Dewelar (talk) 17:43, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	For adding minor league categories to hundreds of baseball player articles over the past few years. This kind of work is definitely appreciated. - PM800 (talk) 02:39, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Luke Scott

I reverted your edit again because you have not explained a valid reason for adding this. I explained to you several times on the talk page why this is not appropriate and thus there is no consensus to add this. Truthsort (talk) 06:05, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I created an entry on the BLPN over this. Feel free to discuss. Truthsort (talk) 21:27, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Your opinion I still disagree with. I took out the quote and just put in a small mention of it... thus no "undue weight" exists anymore... Just cause you dont want it included for some unknown reason doesnt mean any consensus exists since the discussion was very much split. Your only reason for not including it seems to be that "its news so it shouldnt be included" which makes no sense since if you take everything reported in the news out of articles nothing would be mentioned. The incident occured and got news coverage so it should be mentioned. The current mention is very small and should have no concerns but for your determination to get the last say on this. Spanneraol (talk) 22:18, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

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talk page

shall we talk about it on the talk page? Or take it back to the BLP noticeboard? Youreallycan (talk) 20:14, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Dude, you seem to want to focus on this as being his strong opinion and controversial comments - hundreds of thousands of people wanted to see Obama's birth certificate - it was hardly even controversial. He's a baseball player and we should focus on that. Your additions here and edits appear to be desirous of moving the weight to an undue position and your previous demeaning labeling of him as a birther was even worse, happily that has been addressed.Youreallycan (talk) 20:26, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I think "hundreds of thousands" is an exageration.. The main part of his opinion is that he didnt believe Obama was a citizen... without including that part of the quote, the following part doesnt make sense. And you need to include the part about the interviews otherwise the context is missing. Spanneraol (talk) 21:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• -(edit conflict) - . removed "strong" if thats what bothered you - no that wasn't the only issue that bothered me, as I said, - your labeling of him as a birther and your continued attempts to add imo undue weight to the interview and my additional issues. Youreallycan (talk) 21:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't label him as a "birther"... your partial use of the quote is misleading and confusing.. it either need to use the whole quote or return to the one sentence version taht was there before. Your version simply doesnt make sense. Spanneraol (talk) 21:06, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• -You say, "I don't label him as a "birther"... You added this - he expressed support for the birther conspiracy theory. - the quote that remains is fine, its generally accepted now that Obama has presented his details - and you are not suggesting that the subject still suggests or supports that position are you, we have nothing to suggest he does - just that as the cite I am including says - his doubts arose because Obama did not present his birth certificate when requested - and yes - I would say, hundreds of thousands of others also wanted to see it - your POV that is was a strong position and that it was controversial - might belong in a politicians BLP but not in a baseball players. Youreallycan (talk) 21:11, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Well your statement belies your political beliefs for sure. I dont understand why you want to censor his comments... and change what he was saying.. without the context the other part doesnt make sense.. Is your objective bad writing? There is also a later article from the Kansas City paper that i linked to on the BLP page that infers that he still believed the same position after the birth certificate was released. Spanneraol (talk) 21:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC) Here is the other article [1] where he questions the validity of the released certificate. Spanneraol (talk) 21:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

That interview comment was only questioning "verification" - there is nothing to suggest he still holds that position - many hundreds of thousands of American wanted verification and I just think its undue to present him unduly regarding this - I and another user actually support not including it. You have also removed the time clause - that it was during a nationwide dispute that he commented this and you have left it so open ended as to be imo undue. Also - I am not partisan at all in this regard - It was a huge issue with hundreds of thousands wanting clarification. This as is was, (can you please consider replacing this clausal - In 2010, regarding the dispute about President Obama's birth certificate, Scott opined ... it was in nationwide dispute - I am sure otherwise the subject wouldn't have commented or they wouldn't have asked him about it at the interview.Youreallycan (talk) 21:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

• - during the dispute about President Obama's birth certificate, Scott opined (said in an interview) ...Youreallycan (talk) 21:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

It was a mostly fringe movement that held that belief at the time not "hundreds of thousands"... Thats why his coming out with these comments made such a commotion. The time element is still there, it says "in 2010"... Spanneraol (talk) 21:52, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

It wasn't fringe as I understand it it was nationwide - the time element isn't causal - please consider replacing that aspect - during the dispute about Obama's birth certificate. It wasn't a commotion - we have a couple of minor citations. Youreallycan (talk) 21:55, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Are you ok with the edit i just made? Spanneraol (talk) 21:59, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, thank you for that, better. I would never add this minor issue to a wikipedia baseball players biography, it clearly would be notable in a politicians biography but a couple of interview comments in a sportsmans biography is simply undue - my neutral edits have helped but I have only edited it after your refusal to allow it removed, and in an attempt to reduce the weight and attempt to present it in a neutral wikipedia policy compliant manner and I still as per truthsort's comments object to the issues inclusion as undue - Your previous addition imo was much more attacking, and at the moment can settle for that. Youreallycan (talk) 22:01, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm fine with the version as it is now, though I was fine with the shorter version also. Spanneraol (talk) 01:47, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

File:1914team.png

Hello Spanneraol, I came across File:1914team.png while going through Category:Orphan images. It appears that the image was removed in June 2010 because, according to the editor, the image is not of that team. I was just wondering if you could advise me on what should be done with the image. (Should it be readded, or added to another article, etc.) Thank you for your time, Alpha_Quadrant ^(talk) 02:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll have to check which team it is a picture of and put the image on the right page. I didnt know it had been edited. I'll get around to checking it in the next couple of days. Thanks for alerting me. Spanneraol (talk) 06:34, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

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Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(sports)#College_baseball_All-Americans

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Los Angeles Dodgers

Why did you revert my edit on Los Angeles Dodgers? LAAngels21 (talk) 00:43, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

That was a mistake... sorry. Spanneraol (talk) 01:11, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

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NCOLLATH

Hi Spanneraol, a couple of things. First, I respect what you are doing by merging non-notable minor league baseball players. It's a thankless task. Secondly, I ask that you remember that players who have competed internationally for a national team, like Allan de San Miguel, are considered inherently notable. Also, I have started a discussion regarding our disagreement and I invite you to participate. The guideline is somewhat vague, so it is worth fleshing out instead of constantly disagreeing. All the best and thank you for your service to Wikipedia!--TM 21:41, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Can you find evidence that de San Miguel actually competed internationally? It just says he was on the provisional roster which is the first one they put out and has quite a lot more players than actually made the team. Spanneraol (talk) 21:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Jeff Bianchi Redirect

I agree with whomever the previous editor who thanked you for participating in redirecting baseball players to their minor league pages, but I specifically wanted to know your criterion for doing this task in regards to Jeff Bianchi who you redirected to Milwaukee Brewers Minor League Players. Thanks Go Phightins! (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Bianchi does not seem to be a top prospect, he has no notable accomplishments, the article had very little sources... and I had placed a merge tag on the article a couple of months ago which no one removed so i assumed no one would object. Spanneraol (talk) 22:14, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, there was just no explanation in the edit summary so I was a little confused. Thanks. Go Phightins! (talk) 01:28, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

London Rippers not former Kalamazoo Kings

The franchise was actually the Oakland County Cruisers before moving to London...so you might want to reverse that redirect. Tom Danson (talk) 20:34, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I just used the old roster template to make the new one... since the Kings dont exist anymore and would otherwise be deleted. Spanneraol (talk) 20:48, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Drink up! You will need it, enjoy the Dodgers 5 game LOSING streak! Dfshfdafds8 (talk) 04:33, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Deletion sorting

Hey there, in future when you add AfDs to Deletion sorting pages as you did with Amalio Diaz & Keith Weiser to the Baseball deletion sorting page please ensure you tag the AfD with the relevant delsort tag, in this case {{subst:delsort|Baseball|~~~~}} this informs users it has already been added to delsort page & ensures its not added multiple times. Regards ★☆ DUCKISJAMMMY☆★ 03:54, 3 June 2012 (UTC)