User talk:Silverhill

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July 2020[edit]

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. RexxS (talk) 22:21, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't fragment discussions.

You wrote: I am *not* "repeatedly changing content" one way or the other. This was my single contact with, and contribution to, the page

This edit and this edit shows you inserting and re-inserting exactly the same content. Please don't insult me by claiming those constituted a "single contact with, and contribution to, the page". Your initial edit was reverted with an edit summary of no Wp:RS. You could at least have followed the link to Wikipedia:Reliable sources if you didn't understand that. When your edit was reverted, your next step should be to open discussion on the talk page, not to simply re-insert the content. We have a convention, the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, and you would do well to study it.

The reason your edit was reverted was not that the other editor thought the page would be better off without more "cultural-influence references", it's that they felt it would be better off without unsourced material being added. I hope that is clearer now. --RexxS (talk) 13:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

July 2020[edit]

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. RexxS (talk) 22:21, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't fragment discussions.

You wrote: I am *not* "repeatedly changing content" one way or the other. This was my single contact with, and contribution to, the page

This edit and this edit shows you inserting and re-inserting exactly the same content. Please don't insult me by claiming those constituted a "single contact with, and contribution to, the page". Your initial edit was reverted with an edit summary of no Wp:RS. You could at least have followed the link to Wikipedia:Reliable sources if you didn't understand that. When your edit was reverted, your next step should be to open discussion on the talk page, not to simply re-insert the content. We have a convention, the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, and you would do well to study it.

The reason your edit was reverted was not that the other editor thought the page would be better off without more "cultural-influence references", it's that they felt it would be better off without unsourced material being added. I hope that is clearer now. --RexxS (talk) 13:43, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay in responding -- I had various things that needed attending meanwhile.

Sorry also for the fragmenting; since the separate notifications I received were from both you and PepperBeast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pepperbeast), it made sense to me to respond to each of you separately (on your separate Talk pages). Please tell me a method of contact that would be more efficient / more approved / etc.

I remain baffled by the assertion that I made multiple insertions or reversions, since the article's Revision History page does not support the assertion: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gr%C3%A1inne_N%C3%AD_Mh%C3%A1ille&action=history . (Based on this, and on my own memory, I said that I had had only that one contact.)

I regret that my contribution was unsourced; I did try to find an online reference to the named album, but it is apparently out of print and even Google seems unable to turn up a reference (such as: by whom, or where, it was being sold). As I said, I have no problem with this admittedly minor contribution being deemed "not notable enough" to include.

However, I wish to request clarification on the criteria for Notability. I have looked at the WP:Notability page, but it seems to discuss things at the level of whole articles, instead of smaller components of articles. Should I take it that components inherit the notability criteria for articles? (It would make sense for that to be the case.)

Silverhill (talk) 23:13, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Silverhill: Please don't apologise, there's no deadline on Wikipedia,

When I write on someone's talk page, it goes on to my watchlist and I won't remove it for a week or two, so I'll see any response you make on the same talk page. Optionally you can use the {{reply to}} template, as I've done at the start of this post. That will notify you that I've replied to you (of course you get a notification of any post on your own talk page anyway, but I wanted to demonstrate how you can get another editor's attention on any page).

Wikipedia works by collaboration and it is quite normal for another editor to join a conversation between other editors. In fact we rely on that happening when the original two editors disagree, and we value other opinions in helping resolve disagreements. In any case, it is difficult for a third person to follow a discussion if it's spread over multiple pages, so we generally encourage editors to keep discussions in a single place.

I'm baffled that when reading the article's history at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gr%C3%A1inne_N%C3%AD_Mh%C3%A1ille&action=history you can't see the two separate edits you made at:

06:02, 12 July 2020 Silverhill 30,109 bytes +121 Cultural impact: added 'Molly and The Tinker' mention
22:08, 13 July 2020 Silverhill 30,109 bytes +121 Reverted 1 edit by Pepperbeast (talk) to last revision by Silverhill (TW)

Can't you see that you made those two distinct additions of the same, unsourced material?

Let me try to explain about the difference between notability and article content policies. WP:Notability is the guideline Wikipedians use to decide whether a topic should have a stand-alone article or not. So the subject of Gráinne Ní Mháille is notable, because it has significant coverage in reliable, independent, secondary sources.

However, the content of an article is decided by the policies WP:Verifiability, WP:Neutral point of view and WP:No original research. So to add something to an article, it must be found in an existing, published, reliable source, and be relevant to the article.

Now, it may well be that Molly and The Tinker's song is relevant to Gráinne Ní Mháille, but without a source that can be checked, we can't satisfy the need to verify the information. I hope that makes it clearer to you why your addition was reverted. When it was reverted the first time, you should not have simply re-reverted because that is the start of an edit-war, and that was the point of my original note to you. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 14:39, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"...the two separate edits you made at: 06:02, 12 July 2020 [and] 22:08..."

This is the weird part. My next-most recent involvement with reversion, according to my Contributions log, was five years ago (and was a minor thing, easily resolved). It has never been my way to get into needless contention over the content here. There is one possibility that has come to mind recently, though: on the 13th, I had a bad system crash. The browser state was not restored in its normal fashion, and it is possible that the Edit window was still open at the time of the crash. If so, the state restoration may have -- as I have seen it do with some other sites -- accidentally repeated a (previously) pending action (such as "Save Edit").

That's all I can think of. I'm certainly trying not to have this be a "he said/she said" type of affair. (I know that "the past does not predict the future", but I still would like to note that my reversion history has been sparse, minor, and not recent.) Peace?

Thanks.

Silverhill (talk) 07:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Help me![edit]

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Please help me with... Back in 2014, I created a small article on Isaac Asimov's short story "Star Light". I did not put it on my Watch list, since I did not expect that it would attract much (if any) editorial attention Thus I did not immediately notice when a significant edit was made in 2019 (12 Mar 2019, 09:01; by User:Attilios).

When I did eventually look at the article and its edit history, I was annoyed by the fact of, and the brusqueness of, the change. A month ago I posted the following on Attilios's Talk page:

"Greetings, Attilios! I noticed that you had removed the latter section of my article on Star_Light_(short_story), which showed the derivation of the story's title. I am puzzled as to why you felt that this needed to be done, since you left no explanatory comment.

Since I see no reason why this change should have happened, I wish to revert it (but without getting into needless conflict, such as being accused of starting an Edit War). Please inform me of your thoughts here.

Thank you.

I figured that a month's time was enough to allow for such things as busy personal schedules that might get in the way of making a reply, before trying to get a Higher Authority (an Admin) involved. If a case can be made for the removal of my explanatory material, I would of course like to see it, so as to reach some kind of agreement. If the case cannot be made, I wish to revert the change without (as I said) being accused of starting trouble.

I know, of course, that you cannot force Attilios to respond; so, in the absence of such, what is the best course to follow, please? Silverhill (talk) 21:45, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So this rev happened in 2019 (diff), however I think it was the right thing to do because it removed original research. sthg (literally 'something') is less helpful than no summary at all imo, and they have continued using this summary to this day. An admin has warned them about it. @Attilios hasn't responded in the month since you messaged them, but I would have liked them to. I wouldn't re-add the information unless you can find a source that supports the claim. SWinxy (talk) 19:12, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. It's the courteous thing to do to respond to you, and they should stop with this tedious edit summary they're using. That said, the removal of the unsourced content you added was fine. Unless you have a reliable source, I'd leave it out. Katie^talk 19:34, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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