User talk:Quetzal1964/Archive 5

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Happy New Year, Quetzal1964![edit]

Happy New Year!

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Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Taxa named by C. Richard Robins[edit]

A tag has been placed on Category:Taxa named by C. Richard Robins indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Genus Astrocottus[edit]

Hello! You removed genus Astrocottus from Cottidae. I wonder what was the reason for this? გიო ოქრო 16:52, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

გიო ოქრო I would have said error but it’s a wee bit more complicated than that. I took the genus list from the 5th edition of Fishes of the World but subsequently found that the list was incomplete. Very incomplete! I tried to fill in the missing genera using FishBase and missed this one. It may not be the only one.Quetzal1964 (talk) 09:16, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Synanceia nana[edit]

Hello Quetzal1964, thanks to your revert I discovered a misidentified species. The right species seems to be Synanceia nana. I will do the cleanup. Thank you! Best, Poco2 15:40, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Precious anniversary[edit]

Precious
Two years!

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A barnstar for you![edit]

The Stub Barnstar
For your great work on expanding fish species stubs. Keep up the good work! QuicoleJR (talk) 18:25, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Status of fish taxonomy on Wikipedia with respect to FOTW 5th[edit]

Hi, Quetzal1964. I know you spent a lot of time a few years updating articles on higher level taxonomy of fishes to bring them in line with Fishes of the World 5th edition (along with implementing automatic taxoboxes down to species). Could you summarize what orders/families you worked on and brought up to date, and which ones still need to be worked on? Are you aware of any that you haven't worked on where Fishbase or COF are in alignment with FOTW with regards to the placement of genera in families/subfamilies (or any where Fishbase/COF are notably misaligned with FOTW).

Fishes of the World has some dead external links for the 5th edition. If I remember correctly from before the links were dead, the PDF only listed families, but didn't list which genera were included in the family. As far as I'm aware, FOTW isn't freely available online (ResearchGate says you can download a full-text PDF, but when I tried to do so, I only got a jpg of the front cover).

I think there are editors (I'm one at least) who would be interested in working on updating articles to follow FOTW, and finishing implementing automatic taxoboxes for fish (or at least the extant ones). But I don't know where to start, and don't have access to FOTW 5th. Plantdrew (talk) 00:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Plantdrew Thank you for your message. I have a pdf of FotW 5th edition which I downloaded to my PC from ResearchGate when it was available. I have worked on Automatic Taxoboxes for the, as far as I recall, Siluriformes, Gadiformes, Cypriniformes, Ophidiiformes, Syngnathiformes, Scombriformes, Batrachoididae, Gobiiformes, Kurtiformes, Ovalentaria, Anabantiformes, Synbranchiformes, Istiophoriformes, Pleuronectiformes, Carangiformes, Perciformes, Scorpaeniformes and am now working through the Acanthuriformes. The text of FotW lists the genera, tribes and subfamilies of each family and the various higher taxonomic grades too. Quetzal1964 (talk) 08:25, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have a resource page for fish that has the ordinal and family listings of the FotW5 classification: see User:Jts1882/phylogeny/Fish. It also has phylogenetic trees comparing different sources (FotW5, Deepfin and some primary sources). Quetzal1964, you recently mentioned the work involved in adding taxonomic listings at Talk:Teleost so this might help you. If you want any phylogenetic trees feel free to ask.
A listing of the FotW5 classification in pdf form used to be available at https://sites.google.com/site/fotw5th/ but Google have moved their Google Sites hosting and the FoTW5 site didn't migrate. There is a copy of the home page at archive.org, but I couldn't get the classification to download. [edit: found it, see below.] The Deepfin site was also hosted by Google Sites and no longer available, but is available at archive.org. —  Jts1882 | talk  08:50, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Plantdrew: I've now managed to find an archived copy of the FotW5 classification: FotW5Classification.pdf —  Jts1882 | talk  08:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Even better, the book is available from the publisher via the Wikipedia Library: https://onlinelibrary-wiley-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/doi/book/10.1002/9781119174844 —  Jts1882 | talk  12:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Jts1882:, thanks. The archived link you found isn't working for me, but I did get a copy of the full text through the Wikipedia Library, so I don't need the summary classification. I've only just begun to think to check the Wikipedia Library when I run into a paywalled journal article I want to access, and certainly haven't thought about checking there for books. I was planning on working on rays (Batoidea), but am feeling pretty discouraged by the number differences between Wikipedia and FOTW5 (FOTW5 uses a different name/rank for the taxon of the rays themselves, and there are various differences in the families recognized). Plantdrew (talk) 21:41, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Plantdrew: The classification list is quite a useful summary. Try again from this archived page and click on "1) Detailed classification of all fishes" or click here for the pdf. This older archived page now works for me, but the link does work on new archived pages for some reason. The availability of whole books from the Wikipedia Library was a surprise and very useful. —  Jts1882 | talk  06:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Plantdrew: There are a couple of resources you might find useful for working on rays:
—  Jts1882 | talk  16:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. That is useful. I have taken onboard Chiswick Chap's comments, and your own, re Teleost that this is 7 years old now. Both FotW and Deepfin projects appear to have become moribund and, at the very least, we do not expect updates in the foreseeable. As I work on converting taxoboxes to Automatic Taxoboxes in fish articles, using FotW5 taxonomy , other editors frequently update their taxonomy with later schemes. These are usually in line with Catalog of Fishes and I wonder if the project should base its taxonomy on that resource. Admittedly, it may be less stable but it is available online. Quetzal1964 (talk) 13:01, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Joseph Nelson died in 2011 and the 5th edition was finished by Terry Grand and Mark Wilson (he invited them as co-authors before he died). They continued Nelson's conservative view to taxonomy for the 5th edition classification, so the incorporation of molecular insights was incomplete. I suspect their will be no 6th edition and that if there is one the character will change. I still have some hope that Deepfin will come out with a 5th edition. The grant may have finished but the authors are still active researchers. Eschmeyer's Catalog of Fishes is another possibility, although they don't go above class. I don't know how often their supraordinal classification is updated; I suspect not that often as the focus is on names of species. Given the coordination between CoF and Fishbase it would give a sound basis to follow from species upwards. —  Jts1882 | talk  13:28, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've being looking at the Catalog of Fishes classification and have a few comments:
  • Above family it only deals with orders and classes so is of limited use for higher level classification.
  • It is updated periodically. I'm not sure what classification was the original source, but they do update the orders. Looking at some archives, the order sequence changes over the years and new orders are introduced (e.g. Galaxiiformes and Lepidogalaxiiformes from Osmeriformes, Cichliformes from Labroidei) or orders relegated (e.g. Scorpaeniformes).
  • The main changes seems to be at family and subfamily level. Families are moved between orders or suborders (e.g. in "Perciforms"), new families and subfamilies are introduced, etc. Three families described in 2022 are included. This seems coordinated with Fishbase.
The current advice at WP:FISH is "taxonomy at the level of genera and species should follow FishBase" and higher level classification should follow FotW5. I think there would be a good case for changing the advice to also use FishBase and CoL for families and subfamilies. I'm still undecided for supraordinal classification. Deepfin seems a better choice but as discussed above it is now seven years old. There is an interesting new classification of Percomorphs from Thomas Near (doi:10.1146/annurev-ecolsys-122120-122554) with some major lumping of orders (especially compared to Deepfin), but it is tucked away in Supplementary materials rather than published as a new taxonomy. In the phylogenetic analysis (doi:10.1038/s41559-022-01801-3), there is good convergence with Deepfin, in which families belong to which groups and in the relationships between the groups, but with very differently ranked names for the same groups (e.g. Deepfin's order Cyprinodontiformes is superfamily Cyprinodontoidea in suborder Atherinoidei and order Blenniiformes in Near's classification). A formal publication of this taxonomy would be helpful. —  Jts1882 | talk  14:10, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Lives[edit]

Unicornfish are fish and fish are animals. Animals are only animated while they "live". I don't exactly have a problem with "occurs", either, I just think it's more appropriate for events. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

InedibleHulk Thanks for the comment. I am aware of the animal nature of unicornfish, believe it or not, I have some background in biology. In my experience we do not usually talk of an animal living in a place. It's not that it would be wrong to do so but the tendency is to say "is found", "has been recorded" or "occurs". I am not sure why that is but it may be that using "lives" is too definite. "Adam lives in Glasgow", however, Adam might live in Glasgow but he takes the train to Edinburgh to work every week day, so he is found or occurs in Edinburgh too, and all the places in between, albeit briefly. Lives is also used to describe longevity and so may be regarded as ambiguous. Occurs, in the sense used in describing species distribution, means "is found" rather than "takes place", here is a definition "exist or be found to be present in a place or under a particular set of conditions". Quetzal1964 (talk) 08:12, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. What you say does sound like something a biologist might say, and it makes sense if I put on my (barely apprentice-like) biologist hat. I've found (and changed) a good number of "is found in"s over the years, probably written by you or those on your level. When I'm only "the man on the street", not wearing a hat, "lives" just seems like plain English to me. It's a fine balancing act we attempt here, between dumbing it down and keeping it scientific. Thanks for the insight! InedibleHulk (talk) 08:23, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Women in Red 8th Anniversary[edit]

Women in Red 8th Anniversary
In July 2015 around 15.5% of the English Wikipedia's biographies were about women. As of July 2023, 19.61% of the English Wikipedia's biographies are about women. That's a lot of biographies created in the effort to close the gender gap. Happy 8th Anniversary! Join us for some virtual cake and add comments or memories and please keep on editing to close the gap!

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September 2023 at Women in Red[edit]

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WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 21[edit]

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August 2023—Issue 021


Tree of Life


Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
Newly recognized content

Australiformis by Mattximus
Rodrigues night heron by FunkMonk
Titanis by Augustios Paleo
List of lorisoids by PresN
List of storks by AryKun
Brontosaurus by Augustios Paleo, reviewed by The Morrison Man
Eukaryote by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Fritzmann2002
Stramenopile by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Fritzmann2002
Titanoboa by Augustios Paleo, reviewed by SilverTiger12
Antarctopelta by Augustios Paleo, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Anna Blackburne by Kusma, reviewed by Etriusus
Anomochilus leonardi by AryKun, reviewed by Amitchell125
Nyctibatrachus manalari by AryKun, reviewed by Sammi Brie
Mimodactylus by FunkMonk, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Nyctibatrachus major by AryKun, reviewed by Etriusus
Anomochilus weberi by AryKun, reviewed by Etriusus
Plant by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Cessaune

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Ohmdenosaurus by Jens Lallensack
Polar bear by LittleJerry
Mimodactylus by FunkMonk
List of cercopithecoids by PresN
List of tapaculos by AryKun
Klallamornis by Larrayal
Hypericum perforatum by Fritzmann2002
Holozoa by Snoteleks
Teloschistaceae by Esculenta
Carcharodontosaurus by Augustios Paleo
Nyctibatrachus radcliffei by AryKun
Anomochilus by AryKun


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The Signpost: 16 September 2023[edit]

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Contest?[edit]

Hello, I noticed you've been working a lot on Tree of Life related articles in the past month; maybe you'd like to note your contributions at the Tree of Life Contest? AryKun (talk) 15:31, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AryKun Okay Quetzal1964 (talk) 19:27, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 22[edit]

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September 2023—Issue 022


Tree of Life


Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
Newly recognized content

List of cercopithecoids by PresN
List of tapaculos by AryKun
Polar bear by Little Jerry
Ohmdenosaurus by Jens Lallensack
Amargatitanis by Augustios Paleo, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Teloschistaceae by Esculenta, reviewed by Chiswick Chap
Holozoa by Snoteleks, reviewed by Esculenta
Ashy flycatcher by AryKun, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Nyctibatrachus radcliffei by AryKun, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Carcharodontosaurus by Augustios Paleo, reviewed by SilverTiger12
Life by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Apatosaurinae by Augustios Paleo, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Hypericum perforatum by Fritzmann2002, reviewed by Femke

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Mountain pigeon by AryKun
List of hominoids by PresN
List of cranes by AryKun
List of tarsiiformes by PresN
Lycorma meliae by Etriusus
Aristonectes by Amirani1746
Animal echolocation by Chiswick Chap
Hyalospheniidae by Snoteleks
Buellia frigida by Snoteleks


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Barnstar for you![edit]

The Stub Barnstar
Brilliant work expanding all those fish stubs! AryKun (talk) 17:45, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Women in Red - November 2023[edit]

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Tree of Life Contest[edit]

Barn Owl Barnstar
Congratulations on winning the second edition of the Tree of Life Monthly Rolling Contest! Great work expanding all of those stubs and redirects on marine fish into nice, comprehensive articles. 43 articles in a month is absolutely insane, and I'd like to let you know that your work is greatly appreciated. AryKun (talk) 12:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 23[edit]

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October 2023—Issue 023


Tree of Life


Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
Newly recognized content

Mimodactylus by FunkMonk
Mountain pigeon by AryKun
List of tarsiiformes by PresN
List of hominoids by PresN
List of cranes by AryKun
Outline of lichens by MeegsC
Lycorma meliae by Etriusus, reviewed by Chiswick Chap
Oak by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Esculenta
Animal echolocation by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Primium
Elke Mackenzie by Esculenta, reviewed by Moriwen
Dwarf pufferfish by Primium, reviewed by Chiswick Chap
Hyalospheniidae by Snoteleks, reviewed by An anonymous username, not my real name
Paroedura maingoka by Olmagon, reviewed by Jens Lallensack

Newly nominated content

Hypericum sechmenii by Fritzmann2002
Teloschistaceae by Esculenta
Nyctibatrachus major by AryKun
List of sunbirds by AryKun
List of platyrrhines by PresN
Handicap principle by Chiswick Chap
Slime mold by Chiswick Chap
Punctelia by Esculenta
Pulchrocladia retipora by Esculenta
Anaptychia ciliaris by Esculenta
Mocquard's Madagascar ground gecko by Olmagon
Zavodovski Island by Jo-Jo Eumerus
Chrysothrix chlorina by Esculenta
Wood-pasture hypothesis by AndersenAnders
Mammalian kidney by D6194c-1cc
Lepas testudinata by Etriusus
Teratoscincus roborowskii by Olmagon


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Tree of Life Contest[edit]

Barn Owl Barnstar
Congratulations on winning the third edition of the Tree of Life Monthly Rolling Contest! The rate at which you manage to expand all those fish articles truly is incredible, well done. AryKun (talk) 13:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 24[edit]

Shortcut
November 2023—Issue 024


Tree of Life


Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
Newly recognized content

Hypericum sechmenii by Fritzmann2002
Nyctibatrachus major by AryKun
List of platyrrhines by PresN
List of gymnosperm families by Dank
Varroa destructor by KoA, reviewed by Chiswick Chap
Lepas testudinata by Etriusus, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Island bronze-naped pigeon by AryKun, reviewed by SilverTiger12
Placidium arboreum by Esculenta, reviewed by SilverTiger12
Orange-billed lorikeet by AryKun, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Spinular night frog by AryKun, reviewed by An anonymous username, not my real name
Crested cuckoo-dove by AryKun, reviewed by Femke
Aristonectes by Amirani1746, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Mocquard's Madagascar ground gecko by Olmagon, reviewed by Etriusus
Femoral gland by Esculenta, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Ameerega munduruku by AryKun, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Snowy plover by Jens Lallensack, reviewed by SilverTiger12
Crested cuckoo-dove by AryKun, reviewed by Grungaloo
Wood-pasture hypothesis by AndersenAnders, reviewed by Chiswick Chap
Hypericum bupleuroides by Fritzmann2002, reviewed by Etriusus
Teratoscincus roborowskii by Olmagon, reviewed by Esculenta
Pulchrocladia retipora by Esculenta, reviewed by Etriusus
Anaptychia ciliaris by Esculenta, reviewed by Jens Lallensack

Newly nominated content

Snowy plover by Jens Lallensack
List of birds of Bouvet Island by AryKun
Laomaki by An anonymous username, not my real name
Nyctibatrachus robinmoorei by AryKun
Nyctibatrachus sabarimalai by AryKun
Nyctibatrachus mewasinghi by AryKun
Eucalyptus gomphocephala by Hughesdarren

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:45, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Intermediate egret[edit]

A discussion about your proposed move has been started at Talk:Intermediate egret. - Station1 (talk) 19:05, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 4 December 2023[edit]

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seasons Greetings![edit]

Hello there, thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2024! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 24 December 2023[edit]

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:59, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Women in Red January 2024[edit]

Women in Red | January 2024, Volume 10, Issue 1, Numbers 291, 293, 294, 295, 296


Online events:

Announcement

  • In 2024 Women in Red also has a one biography a week challenge as part
    of the #1day1woman initiative!

Tip of the month:

Other ways to participate:

Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:18, 28 December 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging[reply]

WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 25[edit]

Shortcut
December 2023—Issue 025


Tree of Life


Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
Newly recognized content

Snowy plover by Jens Lallensack
Teloschistaceae by Esculenta
List of birds of Bouvet Island by AryKun
List of sunbirds by AryKun
Slime mold by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Esculenta
Handicap principle by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Etriusus
Insect by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by Iztwoz
Wheat by Chiswick Chap, reviewed by KoA
Eucalyptus gomphocephala by Hughesdarren, reviewed by Grungaloo
Buellia frigida by Esculenta, reviewed by J Milburn
Nyctibatrachus robinmoorei by AryKun, reviewed by Grungaloo
Nyctibatrachus mewasinghi by AryKun, reviewed by Grungaloo
Nyctibatrachus sabarimalai by AryKun, reviewed by Grungaloo
Great cuckoo-dove by AryKun, reviewed by Jens Lallensack
Lake Patzcuaro salamander by Etriusus, reviewed by Grungaloo
Anoplotherium by PrimalMustelid, reviewed by 20 upper

Newly nominated content

Alpine ibex by LittleJerry
Pseudastacus by Olmagon
Pachysentis by Mattximus
List of primates by PresN
Banded palm civet by Cremastra
Perothops by Memer15151
Hypericum hircinum by Fritzmann2002
Boquila by Etriusus and Veridicae
Aptostichus barackobamai by Etriusus
Buffy-tufted marmoset by André Ribeiro Cardoso
Ant mimicry by Chiswick Chap
Mosquito by Chiswick Chap
Anopheles by Chiswick Chap
Rice by Chiswick Chap
Pliosaurus andrewsi by Amirani1746
Triassosculda by Abdullah raji
Flaco (owl) by Rhododendrites
Crassispira incrassata by Etriusus
Sei whale by 20 upper

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC) {{Talk archive}[reply]

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