User talk:Frosty/archive2

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

July 2014

Information icon Hello Frosty. Thanks for patrolling new pages – it's a very important task! I'm just letting you know, however, that you shouldn't tag pages as lacking context (CSD A1), or content (CSD A3), moments after they are created, as you did at Designated Member Review. It's best to wait at least 10–15 minutes for more content to be added if the page is very short, and the articles should not be marked as patrolled. Tagging such pages in a very short space of time may drive away well-meaning contributors, which is not good for Wikipedia. Attack pages (G10), blatant nonsense (G1), copyright violations (G12) and pure vandalism/blatant hoaxes (G3) should of course be tagged and deleted immediately. Thanks. Passengerpigeon (talk) 04:39, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Um. Ok. ~Frosty (Talk page) 04:43, 18 July 2014 (UTC) MaynardClark (talk) 05:25, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Thanks for reviewing Designated Member Review, Frosty.

Unfortunately Lixxx235 has just gone over this page again and unreviewed it. Their note is:

Remember, don't review when CSDing for A1/A3

To reply, leave a comment on Lixxx235's talk page.

Thank you. MaynardClark (talk)
Ok. ~Frosty (Talk page) 05:19, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Hope you like the page. I OUGHT to have started this as a draft in my sandbox. I'm sorry. WOW - I've NEVER seen such a speedy response - within ONE MINUTE of my mistakenly saving the file while making it, it had the notice from Frosty. Surely that ought not to happen.

I was unaware of any rule, won't happen again. ~Frosty (Talk page) 05:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Otherkin

Frosty, you have undone that which I have done to fix the Crabkin page. I was just fixing some spelling errors that I saw. KnifeheadMcGee (talk) 04:37, 21 July 2014 (UTC)Knifehead McGee

No you weren't, you were vandalizing it. ~Frosty (Talk page) 05:01, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Chris Alexander (editor)

Dear Frosty. On the TALK page for Chris Alexander(editor), there is an explanation for the change at the bottom of the page. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.151.37.148 (talk • contribs)

Ok, please use an edit summary to avoid confusion. Thanks. ~Frosty (Talk page) 11:40, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Sachin

Hello Frosty, the company VJM Media does not exist any more. how can the page be deleted ? please advise sachinSachin1802 (talk) 12:39, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Hey, the page exists at VJM Media Group. There is an ongoing AFD (Articles for Deletion) debate on the page, so you might want to take part in that. Hope this helps :) ~Frosty (Talk page) 23:00, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit to Persecution of Ahmadis page

Please do not revert edits without checking the talk page for reasons, edit summary boxes are not a space to justify why an edit was made. I have reinstated my edit while logged in. Alfius (talk) 13:01, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I was using the huggle gadget which is designed for quick reverting. If you take a section out of an article, and give no reason whatsoever in the edit summary I cannot tell the difference between an edit made because it needs to be made or an edit made to be disruptive. If I checked the talk page every single time in instances like this, the whole process would be terribly inefficient. Something simple like "removed as per talk page discussion" is more than enough to alert people patrolling recent changes that the edit shouldn't be reverted. ~Frosty (Talk page) 23:48, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
Thanks for tirelessly combating vandalism! Jwoodward48wiki (talk) 02:21, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Whoo thanks :) ~Frosty (Talk page) 02:22, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

AirFreshner

Hi Frosty,

I read the linking guidelines but it is soooo long and confusing. I understand I can't put that link as an external link in the body of the text.

Do you think it should be in the references ? (I clicked on "Edit" of references but it is not so intuitive so I stopped) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hayunavi (talk • contribs) 12:44, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Hmmmm, I'd be tempted to not link to it at all. While your intention is good, Wikipedia is meant to be informative about particular topics, not give advice on them. If you'd like you can start a discussion on the article's talk page and get an opinion from other editors? But my personal opinion is that it shouldn't be linked to anywhere. ~Frosty (Talk page) 12:54, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

ok — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hayunavi (talk • contribs) 10:26, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Spider web

hi frosty. sorry for my de constructive ness. thank you for undoing it. thank you for all your good editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaiden-vamp (talk • contribs) 00:23, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks I suppose. ~Frosty (Talk page) 00:26, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Do you like this porch?

File:Fake porch at Dave & Buster's.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trihn Ester (talk • contribs) 00:53, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Um... I suppose so. ~Frosty (Talk page) 00:56, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

page change

hi frosty. yes sorry for the confusion but i did delete some things on the page i created (red bee band) i'm just trying to clean it up a bit as i've noticed that the page is under observation and may be deleted. I am unsure why that is at the moment, so i am just trying to make it a more appealing page. Thanks --Skittle Stixx (talk) 11:16, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Okey doke, just please use edit summaries :) ~Frosty (Talk page) 11:18, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

ANI...

Don't feel bad. You did well. Kleuske (talk) 11:47, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Eh, I don't feel bad. I created the thread because I was angry, somebody had tried to create drama around me that wasn't there to create. Perhaps it wasn't the best course of action, but thats learning for ya :) ~Frosty (Talk page) 11:53, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Good. Have fun. Kleuske (talk) 14:04, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Frosty. I saw the user's comment and thought it was offensive as well. He has moved on to attacking me, but I have delt with this type and much worse in my life. Good luck and cheers, --Malerooster (talk) 15:50, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

71.179.186.233

That's actually me. I was trying to delete that page and I didn't notice I hadn't signed in. Themane2 (talk) 18:49, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Ah ok, sorry. ~Frosty (Talk page) 23:14, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Mordechai Kedars wikipage

Stop changing Mordechai Kedars wikipage. You are on the Israel security service list! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tor1952 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

If you want to make changes where you are removing large blocks of content without being reverted, use an edit summary to explain to Recent Changes Patrollers what you are doing. ~Frosty (Talk page) 06:32, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Jewish Insurgency in Palestine

Hi Frosty. I disagree. I believe my edits are neutral POV. How would you describe organizations whose very goal is to kidnap and murder political and military persons, and blow up buildings for the very object of obtaining political objectives. Is that not the very definition of terrorism? Loki51 (talk) 09:20, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm ok. I'd personally be weary about defining them as terrorists, as lots of different people on Wikipedia are bound to have different opinions on the matter. My suggestion to you is to revert it back and then start a discussion on the article's talk page about why you think it should be changed and allow the input of others. It's generally not a good idea to just label groups as terrorists without an edit summary or discussion before doing it. ~Frosty (Talk page) 09:28, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Upon reviewing all your contributions, I see you have made similar edits to other articles and editors have generally disagreed with you. I would definitely recommend you discuss on talk pages before making any more changes like this. ~Frosty (Talk page) 09:31, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
When you reviewed my other contributions, did you also review the history of the editors whom you quote? They seem to be pro-Israel, no?Loki51 (talk) 21:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
I'm not assuming they are, they may be like me and think it should be discussed before changing, that's all. ~Frosty (Talk page) 23:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Dear Frosty

I'm not sure if this is how I add to your talk page, but this is how I'm gonna do it. Recently, you re-edited some work I had done to the ERA (Eagle Ridge Academy) page. Well, it may seem as though I was vandalizing, but I wasn't.

You see, I'm a graduate of ERA, I've been initiated into the school's WSC (Worshippers of Satan Club), and I have accepted Lucifer into my heart. Originally, I wasn't keen on the idea of Satanism, so I helped introduce a second sect of the WSC to the school, Lucifarianism. I won't get into the details as I'm just telling you what I've done at the school.

Anyway, the reason I edited the page is that I was upset at them for omitting certain truths that are imperative to understanding ERA fully. Often times, parents are startled at the curriculum and what the students learn while they're there.

In any case, I feel this message is becoming to long, yet I also feel the importance of your understanding and cooperation. Good luck at university.

With sincerest regards, 

     Laurent, Priest of Lucifer
         Birth name: Winslow T. Prescott  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Literally Zanzibar (talk • contribs) 07:37, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
I doubt that highly. ~Frosty (Talk page) 07:45, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Venod Sharma Page

Hi, Frosty,

The Venod Sharma Page is a BLP and the references of Manu Sharma is damaging and Victimizing hence these references are being removed from the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.64.181.60 (talk) 08:05, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh ok, edit summaries and explanations are useful in cases like this. Should always explain your reasoning behind removing content. ~Frosty (Talk page) 08:08, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Eileen Daly Page

Hi Frosty,

The edit I made to the Eileen Daly page is 100% accurate, which you can verify within less than a minute for yourself. Could you take the time to justify reverting the page to a non-accurate state before reverting it please? Ytsorf (talk) 12:56, 03 Aug 2014 (UTC)

Actually it is not up to me to verify claims you make. You had already been reverted by another editor multiple times, please cite claims, especially claims like that. ~Frosty (Talk page) 13:04, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Anon User_talk August_2014

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:98.225.45.186#August_2014

Hi Frosty, All I did was thank Howicus. If you look farther down, you'll see my addition. I'm guessing it was a timing issue between my post and the other comment, but I don't know how Wikipedia works that way.

In the future, I will do a compare on an Admin page before saving. Anything else? Alrich44 (talk) 13:45, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Nah it's all good, Begoon said that is a bug that caused it, so you can ignore the warning. You didn't mean it to happen :) ~Frosty (Talk page) 08:56, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Edit Summary

Okay thanks. Next time I edit, how do I do it with an edit summary? --24.67.32.131 (talk) 09:23, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Should be a bar about the submit button where you type in whatever you want :) ~Frosty (Talk page) 10:47, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Uniphi

Hello, could you please delete the uniphi page, I made a mistake — Preceding unsigned comment added by U193345 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

I can't I'm afraid as I am not an administrator. I have tagged the page for deletion however and an administrator will delete it soon(ish) ~Frosty (Talk page) 01:08, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Alex Hirsch

I am sorry, but Alex said his WIKIPEDIA page needed more of certain things, and vandilism was one of them. Here is the link. http://www.reddit.com/comments/1kgq85 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hunt8r (talk • contribs) 08:48, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

That's not a valid reason to do that... --Frosty ☃ 08:51, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Username

I like your username. It makes me think of the Frosty the Snowman song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hunt8r (talk • contribs) 09:13, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Uh... Thanks I guess. --Frosty ☃ 09:35, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
Thanks for removing that gift! from my talk page hahaha... CutestPenguin (Talk) 12:56, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
It was really eh... quite the gift... —Frosty ☃ 12:57, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

Thanks for removing 67.86.190.242's vandalism on the Nothing to Envy page DavidBoudreau (talk) 15:45, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
I'm more of a tea person, but thankyou haha. —Frosty ☃ 22:59, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Congrats on having a vandal name themselves after you!

Cheers and Thanks, L235-Talk Ping when replying 23:28, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

A touching moment for all Wikipedians I'm sure. Thanks! —Frosty ☃ 23:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 August 2014

Warnings

I never made these edits, why did you say I vandalized Wikipedia?202.175.27.130 (talk) 03:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Well your contributions page suggests that you did in fact make those edits. Maybe you share your IP with other people? —Frosty ☃ 03:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Pages marked for deletion

Hey so you marked two of my pages that me and my friend made. these were intended to be a placeholder for future use, so if you would kindly unmark them for deletion, that would be swell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexander Olson64 (talk • contribs) 07:29, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

You can't create pages about non-notable people (i.e you and your friends). Also the content of the pages were inappropriate for what Wikipedia is for... —Frosty ☃ 07:43, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Sockpuppet Investigation Opened

Hi Frosty, over the past few days I have observed a continual pattern of harassment towards you on this page from a batch of very similar themed user accounts. As a result, I have pieced together the evidence and created Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ Milodarka Cicimil (the initial account which attacked you). You may be interested in giving evidence or a statement in this investigation as the target of the vandalism in question. Thanks, TF92 (talk) 14:58, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah sure, I'll check it out :) —Frosty ☃ 22:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)


Why do you think that the edit was not neutral?

It is fact that Racial abuse happens in Australia and we here in News every now ant then! Not to mention those incident which fail to come up, not make it to even media!

It is fact that organisations like AHPRA has policies to put coloured people in disadvantage!

It is fact that current article is a Joke! In your words not neutral! The heading is racism in Australia and it goes on about multiculturalism in Australia. What has being multicultural has to do with racism? I acknowledge that people migrated to Australia but the article should be about how they discriminated against each other on the basis or their race, cultural background or colour of skin! We all know the history what happened and the history about white Australia policy! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phrudging (talk • contribs) 03:30, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

What you added was an opinion and not a fact. Facts can be backed up with references and citations, you didn't provide any. Further more you added your personal feelings on the article to the article which is again, not neutral. Criticism of an article belongs on the talk page, not on the article itself. —Frosty ☃ 03:50, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Baseless accusations of vandalism

Don't call obvious test edits vandalism. It's needlessly uncivil and antagonises new users trying to figure things out. We're in an era where the needless antagonism of new users by careless new page patrols is driving down participation in a way that worries everyone up to Jimbo and the Wikimedia head. Test pages can be deleted with {{db-test}} without being uncivil. See also Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers. WilyD 09:12, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Example? I'll accept that I may have interpreted a test edit as malicious, but I can't take your words on board unless you are more specific... —Frosty ☃ 09:20, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Oh I think I see the page you mean. I was unsure what to label that as (G2 or G3) as it appeared to be just a keyboard mash. Thankyou for clarifying what I should label it as in future. —Frosty ☃ 09:25, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Keyboard mashs are likely to be tests - someone just wanting to see if they can actually edit. In general, it's a good idea to prefer less accusatory tags when the outcome is the same (G2 over G3 in this case, but also A7s over G11s, and so on). For the most part, it doesn't really matter much; admins reviewing the request won't usually ignore the obvious problem just because the tag is wrong (though for G10 & G12, this is not the case, and they need to be done right - the former because it gets a faster response, the latter because it's not likely to be obvious). WilyD 09:29, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Anthony Sullivan

The only reason i want to use this site is so i have permission to edit Anthony Sullivans history. Here is a link to what ive collected from his personal archives just click this link http://www.nationstates.net/nation=sullyfields and then click on the factbook and read away. (No offense) but i believe that what i have is his true origin. It would be much appreciated if you would let me change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.223.133 (talk) 02:03, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

You can't just replace articles with your own personal research... Articles also need sources and proper formatting. —Frosty ☃ 02:52, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

User:Csatlos

Hello, Frosty. Why did you only revert this editor once at the William Northrop article? The WP:Vandalism/WP:Disruptive editing by this user continued, and when I thanked you for that aforementioned edit via WP:Echo, you didn't return to the article to help revert. Flyer22 (talk) 02:40, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I didn't actually check the page history again after the first revert and had no idea about the edit war. Whoops. —Frosty ☃ 02:50, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks for explaining. Flyer22 (talk) 05:38, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

HI!

hello!ummm.... how is my link inappropriate?i play games on this website and its a new website so it doesnt have any wikipedias,i wanted to link it to a wikipedia page but it didnt have any.does it get any better if i just write its name and dont link it to anything?
thanks Newsha71 (talk) 08:11, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

This is a sock apparently O_o —Frosty ☃ 08:52, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Joey Fisher

Hello frosty I believe your wrong I have met Joey fisher and had interview with her and she informed me that she was a pornstar and had stared in over 165 films and wanted it put on her Wikipedia page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nchaldridge12 (talk • contribs) 09:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I highly doubt that. But even if it was true you need to source statements about living people. And you also messed up the page formatting/spelling of various words. —Frosty ☃ 09:26, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

In reply to Anthony Sullivan

I would have replied in my other section but im really afraid id mess the formatting up. Speaking of formatting what is the proper one? My sources are nationstates and Anthony Sullivan. If formatting is a problem then could you link me to somewhere on this site where it tells you the guidelines for it? And btw i mean all of this with the utmost respect i just want to get Anthony's story out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.223.133 (talk) 14:50, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Help:Wiki markup will give you a guide to formatting. But I definitely recommend you also read Wikipedia:Citing sources. —Frosty ☃ 23:03, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Firewolf 7

I don't come on anymore, this is probably going to be my last time on I don't do tests, BTW — Preceding unsigned comment added by Firewolf7 (talk • contribs) 01:32, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Ok. Just randomly inserting "D" into an article looked like one. —Frosty ☃ 01:37, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Rebelution (band)

hey man rebelution420blunts here. just wondering why you seem to think you know the Legend better than i do. i grew up on that sweet, sweet green and i find it offensive that u would disrespect lik this. text me if you want 2 meet and fight this out man to man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rebelution420blunts (talk • contribs) 01:47, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Don't add jokes and other assorted nonsense to pages please. —Frosty ☃ 01:51, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


demet muftuoglu page

can you delete the above page as it is full of self promotion and she is clearly advertising herself? she is not known or has any fame whatsoever. G11. Unambiguous advertising or promotion — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.228.31 (talk) 03:30, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

No I can't. Only admins can delete pages, also that page has existed for many years and thus cannot be speedy deleted, it would have to go through WP:AFD. —Frosty ☃ 03:53, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
so what will you do to start the process? Are you taking this matter seriously? Please do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.228.31 (talk) 04:22, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Demet Muftuoglu -- I started a discussion for you. Your input would also be welcome if you wish to participate in the discussion. —Frosty ☃ 04:35, 17 August 2014 (UTC)


thank you. will certainly add input. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.22.228.31 (talk) 02:43, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 August 2014

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Why do you mostly always beat me at undoing vandalism. why so pro :( VeNeMousKAT (talk|contribs) 03:28, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Wheeeeeee thanks. Once you have a bit more experience you should ask for rollback so you can use huggle and STiki. They're good at doing it faster than Twinkle. But twinkle is definitely good for newbies ;) See you around. —Frosty ☃ 03:33, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Texas Tech Basketball

You have no sense of humor don't you? Have fun in sarcasm every once in a while, Texas Tech basketball IS the worst team ever and it deserves to be known. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DooMShizz (talk • contribs) 03:53, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

I do have a sense of humor. Inserting jokes into the middle of a Wikipedia article is not the place... Also it was a terrible joke. —Frosty ☃ 07:43, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

The edits made by 172.56.28.33 is not sourced and therefore is a hoax

Edits made by this IP address stating that Google made google doodles for the 2014 FIFA U-20 Women's World Cup, Britain's Got Talent and the 2011 Summer Universiade. But when I go to the Google Doodle page, Google didn't create doodles for the U-20 Women's World Cup, Britain's Got Talent and the 2011 Summer Universiade. So it's a hoax. 174.91.70.118 (talk) 02:25, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Okey doke. Most people patrolling recent changes won't revert you removing content if you use a valid edit summary explaining that it is a hoax/unsourced. I reverted you because you didn't explain and I had no knowledge of it being a hoax. So yeah, just explain when removing sections, makes it easier for everyone :) —Frosty ☃ 02:35, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Bishop Sankey

Hello Frosty. I recently edited my son's early years section. I am his Mother, and my family and I do NOT want an early years section about him posted at this time as the information is not completely correct. Please do NOT keep adding the early years section to my son's wiki page. Thank you.

Leftjab1234 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leftjab1234 (talk • contribs) 08:53, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Hmmmm. I would suggest you start a discussion on the talk page before you start taking large chunks of an article out, seeing as how you are directly involved with the person it is about. You can also (and I strongly recommend that you do) create an entry at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard talking about what you have removed or if you have any other issues with the article. Hope this helps. —Frosty ☃ 10:45, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

A Kind Persons Frienship For A Cute Kitten?

Like to be friends come talk on my talk page for you are a kind person.

Night Wolfsister (talk) 15:34, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Deleted text

hi,sorry for that it was unfortunately delete by me...liyakat ali

All good man, if you want to test things just use the sandbox yeah. —Frosty ☃ 22:44, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 August 2014

Koos Kombuis

How come you didn't think my edit to the Koos Kombuis page was constructive? There was a line in Afrikaans on it. Since this is English Wikipedia, I simply included a translation of the line into English so people could understand it. What's wrong with that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.41.156 (talk • contribs)

I didn't understand why you were essentially adding swear words to an article, because you didn't really offer an explanation to it. If you explain edits like that, people won't make the mistake of reverting it. Anywho, sorry about that. —Frosty ☃ 22:41, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Thanks for the quick revert on my page, they didnt even have the decency to update the vandalised counter. Shame on them. Amortias (T)(C) 00:29, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Haha thanks and no problem —Frosty ☃ 00:30, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Frosty/archive2&oldid=1143010358"