Template talk:Tempi train crash

Proposal to detail both lines and junction 118

A news video shows the Larisa station control panel as well as the layout of the lines associated with the train crash and rail junction 118, which played a key part in the accident. Consider enhancing the template to show both lines and junction 118.

Template might not be 100% accurate

I might be the only one who is saying this, but the template isn't 100% correct. In the sense that the template makes it look like IC62 (the passenger train) was going southwards instead of northwards. Also i think the accident occured much closer to the A1 motorway bridge, if not right under it. Also what are those "abandoned small station" icons for, am i missing something? Also i genuinely have no clue about a tunnel between Larissa and the site of the accident, and i have some good knowledge of the Athens-Thessaloniki railway line.

Thank you for any improvements in advance! TrainSimFan (talk) 08:51, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @TrainSimFan, yes, the template is not 100%; more work is needed on it... not least as more information as to the sequence of events leading up to the crash comes to light. The north-south axis is from the Piraeus–Platy railway diagram... which has the same layout; I'm happy to change it round to better represent the trains direction. The A1 motorway crosses by bridge further down the line, the location of the bridge it crosses over the enclosed tunnel before curving round... ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 18:27, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The Emperor of Byzantium. Yes, kudos for the route map. I do not know about the facts of the above comments from TrainSimFan but I can tell they are sincere and in good faith.

Emperor, as the template author and guru, can you please center the 'navbar' & the 'title' output from the template? Because the template has a dark border, those two elements make the template look off-center in respect to the multiple image template above it when in the mobile/vertical view. Can you see that?

Good job. Carry on. Cheers! PS: I added the word 'flowchart' to the title. Please edit it, as needed, to comport. I probably should have written 'route map' instead. {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 14:37, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @WikiWikiWayne I will try tonight, I have no issue with others adding to this... friendly edits ALLWAYS welcome, but thank your for your positive feedback and kind words ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 18:29, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The Emperor of Byzantium, i can tell you what needs improving since im accustomed to the route, even if its just watching YT vids. Some of the points mentioned:

The IC62 was going northbound when the map is facing southwards. Which will be confusing for people, even for me who i have decent route knowledge.

There's no railway tunnels between Larissa and the accident site, just roads passing over them. The nearest tunnels are the Tempi Valley tunnels which are north of the crash site, having opened in 2003 bypassing the old route.

There is a station south of the crash site called Evangelismos, but i don't know if its used or not (even if its there, surely there must be entrance/exit signals since it also has passing tracks).

The "closed small station" icons need to be removed, since, according to the BSicon guide, they are meant to represent closed smaller stations. Their presence adds to the confusion given that they make it seem that something was there, also making it seem that the crash site occured further than the A1 overpass (if it didn't actually happen inside the concrete cover).

I think that's basically it really, it needs a bit more detail but not too much to confuse the average reader. To be more accurate in relation to the site of the accident, images of the accident from news article could be a good place to start. ::::Eventually i imagine someone will do a 100% accurate drawing of the accident, since ive seen similar things in other Wikipedia articles. ALAS my drawing skills suck so idk who will do it.

Again, thank you in advance! TrainSimFan (talk) 18:25, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @TrainSimFan (sorry replying to the different threads at a time) if your happy to execute some of these changes your more then welcome to... its in need of being more detailed... but at the same time, what can be left out to stop it looking too cluttered? ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 18:33, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Well i can try even if im a bit inexperienced with this sort of thing... i cant guarantee it 100% though, i'll figure something out. TrainSimFan (talk) 18:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@TrainSimFan great job! this is Wikipedia at its best... team work and positive feedback thank you! ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 19:06, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I just want to know if theres icons of roads at 45 degree angles... TrainSimFan (talk) 19:11, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Looking good @ TrainSimFan, great work, I don't think there is, I could be wrong but this was an issue I ran into when creating the first draft of the template --✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 21:15, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi, TrainSimFan and The Emperor of Byzantium – We cannot use most news article photos as they are non-free content. We need to take our own, or find public domain stuff. Drawings are okay, if you draw them, or get a release. Carry on. PS: I posted on the routemap template talk page. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 20:10, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@WikiWikiWayne, that's to be expected, thank you! how shall we proceed? ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 21:16, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Emperor of Byzantium – There is a tunnel under the roadway that the train was exiting when it hit the other train. It is easy to spot the crash site on a map, if you see the cross of the tracks and the roadway. Keep up the great work. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 17:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Evangelismos station

Hi @ TrainSimFan, thanks for the edits; you beat me to the punch in changing the directions... just to clear Evangelismos railway station is long closed; we both know that but others won't; so just a disclaimer saying (disused) would help... a friendly feedback suggestion --✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 19:02, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I didnt know that, i mean it did seem a bit deserted so yeah, thanks for the heads up! TrainSimFan (talk) 19:03, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@TrainSimFan no worries ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 19:09, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Currently "Evangelismos" links to a wrong place "Evangelismos metro station" which is completely different from "Evangelismos, Larissa".―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:00, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes im aware, im changing it back, dont worry. TrainSimFan (talk) 09:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Before I mucked it up, it was linked to rws/Evangelismos which is a red-link, so I linked it to Metro/Evangelismos with an edit summary that I could be wrong, but I fixed the red-link. Putting it back to rws/Evangelismos will result in a red-link unless you create a Wikipedia article for Evangelismos railway station. The same nomenclature goes for rws/Tempi. No such article: Tempi railway station.Cheer! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 10:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

The Emperor of Byzantium – Evangelismos is a DAB page with 8 choices on it. Need to DAB Evangelismos. You'll get a notice from the DAB bot on your talk page. I don't know which one is closest. Good job. Seriously. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 16:50, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

re-ping

Red link in template

I saw a red link in this template, poked around, poked and hoped with some test edits, and made it blue. The solution was to change "rws" to "Metro" within a nested template, then the nested template was able to resolve the proper destination link itself. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 19:17, 4 March 2023 (UTC) The Emperor of Byzantium and TrainSimFan – And then... an editor changed it from the Metro station to the city, so I reverted their edit. Having fun! Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 19:46, 4 March 2023 (UTC) Reping

Yes but Evangelismos metro station is NOT the same as the train station close to where the accident occured. TrainSimFan (talk) 09:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

TrainSimFan – That's why my edit summary said to WP:FIXIT if it was wrong. Changing it back to rws is not cool because there is no Evangelismos railway station article for the rws template to expand out to. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 10:22, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Renaming the head title

I think we should rename "|title=" to something much more shorter as it takes up space. But what should we rename it to? IMO "Piraeus–Platy railway" is too long and doesnt 100% represent the whole line. Again, this is just my two cents on this. TrainSimFan (talk) 19:42, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

TrainSimFan – The current |title= is "Simplified route diagram", I believe. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 19:51, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I didnt mean that, i meant the one where theres white text on a red background. Sorry if i wasnt really specific, its a bit difficult to explain. TrainSimFan (talk) 19:52, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

TrainSimFan – Oopsie. My bad. Wrong title parameter. Sorry. I trimmed it by 3 letters in the interim. The current |title= does cover nearly 500 km of the line and is inclusive of the disaster site. I'm not stuck on it. Whatever works. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 20:24, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @TrainSimFan No worries, if it helps the title Piraeus–Platy line I only used, as it was what was used for the diagram for the Wenzhou train collision, if you wish to change it... no worries, its mostly a place holder for something better? ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 23:55, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Proposal for revision of routemap

Piraeus–Platy line
Simplified route diagram
km To New Thessaloniki   434.9 Katerini Direction of freight train 378.8 Tempi 369.1 Site of collision E75 / A 1 366.6 Evangelismos 345.4 Larissa Direction of InterCity 62 303.1 Palaiofarsalos To Athens

Tempi crash diagram
Simplified route diagram
km.0 to New Thessaloniki 434.9 Katerini direction of freight train 378.8 Tempi 369.1 site of collision E75 / A 1 direction of InterCity 62 366.6 Evangelismos 345.4 Larissa 303.1 Palaiofarsalos to Athens

I propose to revise the routemap as follows:

1. Remove "Tempi Valley tunnels" and "Pineios river bridge" as there is no mention of these locations in the article
2. Replace "Rapsani" with "Tempi" as "Rapsani" is nothing to do with this incident
3. Add "Palaiofarsalos" because the incident began in this station

―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 06:01, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Phoenix7777 Thank you, this looks a good edit, I would also remove Evangelismos rail station, as its long closed... Thank you for this! ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 22:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey, The Emperor of Byzantium and Phoenix7777 – I feel we should add back Evangelismos or rws/Evangelismos because the crash is about deadnuts between Tempi (not Tempe Valley) and Evangelismos. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 10:31, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I concur with WikiWikiWayne. I don't understand why The Emperor of Byzantium removed it.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:55, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Phoenix7777 and @WikiWikiWayne No problem, I was worried User:23emr would remove the routemap again for being a "malformed Template" ✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 11:39, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

The template looks absolutley terrible. i understand the addition of Palaiofarsalos station but there was absolutely nothing wrong. I did the edits according to the details of the actual route, doesnt matter if the tunnels and the river bridge were mentioned or not, they are relevant in relation to the location of the accident and the surroundings. Not to mention the station at Tempi was on the old route (which doesnt appear in this template), which closed almost 20 years ago. The closest station north of the crash site is Rapsani.

Whose idea was it to say that this is malformed? If anything, right now its only gotten further from how accurate it is... TrainSimFan (talk) 19:58, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Removed malformed Template

Hi User:23emr, why is this template malformed? It was removed from the article with no warning or consultation from those who have been refining it? (a friendly response?) --✠ Emperor of Byzantium ✠ (talk) 22:35, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

The proper template was, to my knowledge, already there. Also, it apparently did not exist. If this is an error, feel free to revert it, and I will stand corrected. 23emr (talk) 17:02, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Upon further inspection, it was malformed at the time. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tempi_train_crash&oldid=1143608583 23emr (talk) 17:05, 9 March 2023 (UTC)