Template:Did you know nominations/Charenton (asylum)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by BlueMoonset (talk) 07:53, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Charenton (asylum)

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• ... that that in the early 1800s patients at the Charenton mental asylum were encouraged to organize and act in their own plays to as a humane alternative to the usual treatment of mental health patients? Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)
  • ALT1: ... that director François Simonnet de Coulmier had patients of Charenton asylum organize and act in plays as a form of psychotherapy? Source: De Saussure, Raymond. “Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences” Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences, vol. 3, no. 3, 1948, pp. 452–452.

Created by Mguo17 (talk). Nominated by BaiCaiXue (talk) at 01:55, 12 March 2017 (UTC).

• Review Not timely nominated. IMO, timeliness can be blinked. However, not 5X expansion of an existing article. If this is to pass, needs a larger expansion. WP:QPQ not required, less than 5 WP:DYKs. Have also uncovered apparent close paraphrasing issues and copyright violations through Earwig. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:10, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

It has been nine days since this problem was brought to the attention of the creator and nominator. Problems still need to be addressed. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:17, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

• 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:58, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

• Note: it turns out that there were two nominations for this article—this one, reviewed by 7&6=thirteen, and Template:Did you know nominations/Charenton, which was nominated by the article's expander nearly 16 hours later that same day, and reviewed four days later by Rystheguy. This review found more issues beyond the expansion, with apparent close paraphrasing and copyvio, so even though it isn't the one submitted by the expander, I think this is the one that should be retained. It's also on the verge of being rejected, but I was thinking of holding off a few days longer. I also wanted to copy my comment from that other nomination prior to closing it (see below), and thought I might as well copy the hook from there as well as an ALT1 here. Of course, if we don't hear from Mguo17 very soon—there have been at least three notices to that user's talk page plus several pings on the review pages—it's all going to be academic. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:13, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

• Comment: the article was 1241 prose characters prior to expansion, which requires a 5x expansion to 6205 prose characters; it is currently 4427, so another 1778 prose characters will be needed. As well, the "updated" template on the article needs to be satisfied. Mguo17, if you can add those 1778 prose characters to satisfy the expansion requirement, please let us know here. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:08, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

• Comment: Thanks for patience and persistence with this, BlueMoonset! I wasn't able to find any close paraphrasing using the Earwig tool, which shows only a 2.9% copyright violation. Is there a section in particular that needs more work? Maybe I can help a bit, even if this doesn't make it onto the main page. Ry's the Guy ^{(talk|contribs)} 06:36, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

• Comment I would recommmend we find the article was timely nominated, as there was a near miss and substantial compliance. However, we are still short of 5X expansion. The copy violation problem has been resolved. The hook source is offline, but it seems plausible and I would WP:AGF. The tag ("needs to be updated") still remains. We still have paragraphs that are uncited.

I would suggest that the section on the The Esquirol Hospital could be expanded using "The Esquirol Hospital". Retrieved March 24, 2017., which I have added as an in line reference/source. That would get us past the 5X expansion problem, and might even address the update tag problem. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:46, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Here is another source: Denis Morozov (September 15, 2008). Francois-Regis Cousin; Jean Garrabe (eds.). Anthology of French Language Psychiatric Texts. John Wiley and Sons. p. 55. Retrieved March 24, 2017.

And another Charenton Hospital the Asylum Project. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:44, 24 March 2017 (UTC)