Talk:Z flag

Z flag is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Heraldry and vexillologyWikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyTemplate:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyheraldry and vexillology articles

Japan Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project, participate in relevant discussions, and see lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 23:43, May 16, 2024 (JST, Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WikiProject Japan to do list:

Peer review: Kako River (Japan)
A-class review: None

Featured content candidates –

Articles: None
Pictures: None
Lists: None

Good article nominations: Pure Japanese, Vinland Saga (TV series), Japanese destroyer Ume (1944), Mai Fujisawa, Godzilla Minus One
Add requested images to articles that need them.
Pages for Deletion: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions.
Improve and expand Japan-related stubs.
Create some requested articles.
Help translate an article from the Japanese Wikipedia into English.
Assess unassessed articles

Military history: Maritime Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Maritime warfare task force

Writing systems Start‑class Low‑importance

	Writing portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.Writing systemsWikipedia:WikiProject Writing systemsTemplate:WikiProject Writing systemsWriting system articles
Start	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The Z flag at Pearl Harbor[edit]

The question of exactly which flag or flags were flown prior to the Battle of Pearl Harbor is vexing me.

On the one had, we have very many sources saying the Z flag was flown. However, the ones I see are mostly popular histories or address the question in passing. I don't know if these sources are really researching the matter or just passing on what they read elsewhere and assume to be true. I suspect the latter.

Because John Toland, a respected historian (but a popular historian rather than a scholar) has a very specific story about the Z flag only going up for a brief time and then being taken down.

But Mitsuo Fuchida, who was there, says the Z flag was too. But then, you know... eyewitnesses, wishful thinking, remembering how you think it ought to have been... we all know about that.

And then the article in the Japanese Wikipedia specifically says the D and G flags were used instead of the Z flag, as by 1941 the D and G flags meant what the Z flag had meant in 1905 -- I think (I can't read Japanese and rely here on Google Translate). But there's no ref given. But it is the Japanese Wikipedia and you think they'd know. I have one English ref to this effect, here, but its a very poor ref with no named author and so on.

It may be that the D and G flags replaced the Z in Toland's story. But Toland says "flag" singular. He then goes on to say, much later, that the Z flag was flown at Midway and Leyte. And he's the only source I have for that. (It seems odd that, according to Toland, the Z flag was not flown at Pearl Harbor but was flown at Midway and Leyte. But that's what he says.)

Any assistance in clearing this up would be welcome. Herostratus (talk) 14:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a source for you, but FWIW, I'd consider both Toland & Fuchida unreliable (tho they might meet WP standards, IDK...). They've both been caught in mistakes or falsehoods. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 17:38, 18 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps is a case like with USS Missouri (BB-63), where people told tall tales about the flag the battleship flew on 2 September, and there was the presence of admiral Perry's flag on the ship which was not so much flown as it was displayed. TomStar81 (Talk) 20:25, 19 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I find It odd, that its use at Tsushima and Pearl Harbour are mentioned, but not the origin of both of these uses, Nelson's prearranged message at the battle of Trafalgar "Britain expects that every men will do his duty" signalled with the same flag at the start of the battle, thi final signal given from HMS Victory during the action. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.164.253.186 (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]