Talk:Xuanzang/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Untitled

Article merged: See old talk-page here

South India

Xuanzang travelled as far as Kanchipuram in South India. He visited the famous stupas and monasteries at Amaravati and Nagarjunakonda. The article is silent about these visits. Can it be added?

Title

Why is his name written as Xuan Zang and not Xuanzang (currently just a redirect)? The one-word version is two or three times more popular (Google), and it doesn't mislead ppl into thinking that Xuan is his surname or Zang is. --Menchi 11:42 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Err, I usually write it Xuanzang too .. can't be bothered looking at the history atm but i think maybe someone else came and moved it, or I moved it at some point. The book on which I based the article had the space, so if I was the originator that could have been why. OK to move it if you like!

--prat

Deleted the redir and moved. Also replaced all references to "Xuan Zang" to "Xuanzang" in this article using MS Word auto-find.

--Menchi 01:42 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Deleted Xuanzang's revision history was:

14:28 27 Jun 2003 . . Pratyeka (#REDIRECTXuan Zang)

--Menchi 00:51 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Year of Birth

year 600. Do we have any authority here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kdammers (talk • contribs) 10 July 2005.

As it is, it's even contradicting; the article states "Xuanzang [...] (602-644/664) [...] was born near Luoyang, Henan in 599". There's obviously something wrong here. If there isn't any proof on the date we should just write "born between 599 and 602, died in 644 or 664". Any thoughts? --Εξαίρετος (msg) 21:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks John Hill for the reference. --Εξαίρετος (msg) 12:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)ok this info is write{| class="wikitable"

Is this BC or AD? Sarujo (talk) 03:36, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

A map?

To improve the article, a map of the journey would be of great help, I think: the list of cities, mountains and rivers Xuanzang crossed can be confusing, especially to those unfamiliar with the geography of the area. The article describes in depth his journey, so I guess someone with good skills could draw a map useful enough. --Εξαίρετος (msg) 12:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. A map with the places he visited and (approximately) tracking the route he took, will be very helpful.
And, what was the mode of transport he took for this travel?
(21March2013)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.109.63 (talk) 07:50, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Why has this article been given a "low importance" rating?

What possible justification can be given for rating this article of "low importance" (i.e. "Subject is peripheral knowledge, possibly trivial"?) See the "WikiProject China" box above and click on "show" to see what this rating and how it compares to other, higher, ratings.

Xuanzang is one of world history's most famous travellers and his book of travels and his Biography contain so much historical information on the many countries he travelled through that they are by far the most important documents on this period for many places in Central and South Asia.

Moreover, he was one of the greatest and most prolific translators of Buddhist texts into Chinese and was a major influence on all who followed him, and on the development of Chinese Buddhism in general. He is also important for the influence he had on the development of later Chinese literature notably the enduring and important Ming novel Journey to the West with it's world-famous character, Monkey, based on the life of the great pilgrim himself.

Please, I strongly urge that the "importance rating" of this article be considerably upgraded.

Sincerely, John Hill 02:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The importance ratings are necessarily subjective. To improve their validity, discussion is encouraged. I suggest you bring up your points at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China and see what others think. --Ideogram 04:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

India or South Asia?

A certain user is now encouraging an edit war so I ask for the opinions of other users. Xuanzang visited a lot of different states, all of them having names like Ghandara, Multan, Nepal, Swat Valley etc, so what is the significance of calling this region in the context of British "India"? The region in question is Afghanistan, Pakistan, North India and Nepal. I propose editing the heading from India to South Asia as it would make more sense. The region was not called "India" at the time, but consisted of 100s of smaller Kingdoms. It is misleading to use the term "India" as a substitute for South Asia. There seems to be a Nationalist intent. --Xinjao (talk) 12:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there is any "Nationalist intent" at all. I think it's simply that all of these places were part of the historical region of India. The Indian subcontinent, perhaps. I'll admit I'm not really sure, but I am assuming good faith and guessing that the user means that Xuanzang visited the area that generally formed part of Indian empires (whenever an emperor actually united the whole country by force). Or, more likely, the geographical landmass that is called "India" (i.e. the tectonic plate that has moved further northward than any other, if I recall correctly). --Kuaichik (talk) 21:25, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree - I think in early historical terms it is fine to refer to "India" as the name of the subcontinent or the region generally. This term was historically reasonably free of political overtones as the subcontinent was never really united until most of it was absorbed into the British empire. Unfortunately, now, due to the separation of Pakistan and Bangladesh the name is assumed to have political overtones and a more restricted geographic application - however, I don't think this should be a problem for anything much before 1947. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 23:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Name

Is it worth mentioning the following? One of the characters forming his name was part of the personal name of a Chinese emperor, so became taboo on his accession. As a result, many documents were rewritten, replacing this character by another. This accounts for some of the variant spellings. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read this. Peter jackson (talk) 10:32, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why not. Maybe you can put it in (I guess it would go in the "Nomenclature and etymology" section, yes?) and include a "citation needed" tag? :-D --Kuaichik (talk) 04:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed merger with article titled Hieun-Tsang

I don't think there should be any doubt at all that the two articles should be merged as they deal with the same person. Hieun-Tsang is just an old way of romanising Xuanzang and should have no part in the Wikipedia (except for a redirect to Xuanzang). My feeling is that the sooner the two articles are merged the better. Will be happy to give a hand doing this if needed. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 22:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

"Hieun-Tsang" really might approximate an archaic pronunciation, closer to the way he might have said his own name. Maybe. However, I certainly agree that the article should be title "Xuanzang" and that other article should be merged here.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 03:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Proposed Merger

~ I totally agree with John Hill that the articles should be merged - and also agree on the importance of the subject. A major source. What is the process for making a decision like this?

As a relatively new editor, I have merged minor articles that were flagged for clean-up a couple of times (redirecting one to the merged one) when they clearly covered exactly the same topic. Maybe I broke the rules? Aymatth2 (talk) 04:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Veryveryveryverylate Support the proposed merge. Hopefully there will be some way to start work soon... I c eUnshattered ^{[ t ]} 00:59, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Theravada, Hinayana

The article repeatedly states that Xuanzang studied "Theravada" or went to "Theravada" monasteries. At this time Theravada did not exist in the areas he visited. I think that it was originally "Hinayana" and someone changed it to not offend anyone.

Actually, it would be better to just say "non-Mahayana." Any objections to changing it to this? Mitsube (talk) 05:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Good point. "Early Buddhist schools" works. Done. Bertport (talk) 13:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Grousset

I've added some quotes from Grousset's book. He was one of France's great scholars when he died in 1952. He writes in the Preface: "Every now and then humanity, by dint of infinite groupings, achieves greatness and realizes its raisons d'etre in a brief period of outstanding success before sinking back once more into an infinitely slow decline. It would seem that the Buddhist world too enjoyed one of these privileged periods. It occurred in the early Middle Ages, around the seventh century." (Rene Grousset. In the Footsteps of the Buddha. JA Underwood (trans) Orion Press. New York. 1971 pp v-vi).Fauncet (talk) 09:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Xuanzang (Journey to the West) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:46, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Fun Fact

The lead image is the famous Japanese painting of Xuanzang from the Kamakura period. Look closely and you will notice that he is wearing a necklace of skulls(!) just like his literary disciple Sha Wujing form Journey to the West. This is because the monk was associated with the character's religious precursor, an obscure, skull necklace-wearing desert spirit worshiped in Japan as a minor protector deity. You can read about it on my research blog. The sources on my article can be used to add info to this article if someone is so inclined. One such source (containing the necklace info) can be seen here. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 12:21, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

English pronunciation

The English pronunciation seems spurious. How would the common English speaker know that the Z is pronounced like a unaspirated lenis affricate while being clueless about the rest of the letters? --2001:16B8:2EC5:2400:9474:A7C:3C15:EE8D (talk) 09:39, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Seventh century

This article says that Xuanzang travelled to India "in the seventh century". Should it not say "in the seventh century B.C."? Vorbee (talk) 16:34, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

That would be the seventy century A.D. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 14:00, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Review comments

This is an important article about a historic and influential monk, whose travels and efforts made significant direct impact on East Asian Buddhism, and indirectly on SE Asian Buddhism. This version has several sections with unsourced paragraphs and OR, tagged for a long while. The lead and the main relies in part on Sally Wriggins, but her accessible book is neither a translation nor a critical scholarly study. It is her impressions of Xuanzang's journey, presented as a constructed biography with much synthesis and fiction. She has Xuanzang describing events, in a first person witness account, that happened some 1,100 years before he was born. She is therefore a mix of primary and secondary source, mixes Buddhist miracles and myth with history. We should summarize her book with care, and when we do she must be attributed. Similarly, a few quick checks of cited sources raise concerns of WP:OR and WP:Synthesis. There are peer reviewed scholarly sources on Xuanzang, and it is these we should rely on and summarize here. I will do some clean up and cite some more scholarly sources. I welcome others to read, review these further and then constructively improve this article further. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 12:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC)