Talk:World Wide Web/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

"Www g" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Www g. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 6#Www g until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TheAwesomeHwyh 15:14, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

"Www2006" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Www2006. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 6#Www2006 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TheAwesomeHwyh 16:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Www2007. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 6#Www2007 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TheAwesomeHwyh 16:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect WWW2007. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 6#WWW2007 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TheAwesomeHwyh 16:37, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect WWW2006. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 6#WWW2006 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TheAwesomeHwyh 16:37, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Protecting Source Code

This page should receive protection. Since WWW is something common, like the term Internet, it should qualify for protection, right?

I

Am

Llanfairwyll

22:22, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

We need a citation for the "December 20th" claim

It's not in the citation given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.70.13.107 (talk) 22:00, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

internet

What is the world wide web? 102.91.4.244 (talk) 11:04, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

This isn't the place to ask (see WP:TPG). Ask at Wikipedia:Reference desk. That said, my rough definition is that World Wide Web is a term which refers to files accessible via the internet which are formatted so that they can be interpreted by web browsers. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

WWW logotype might not be the original one

The WWW logo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WWW_logo_by_Robert_Cailliau.svg) might only be a recreation/interpretation of the original, done at the occasion of "The first website" project: https://first-website.web.cern.ch/first-website/

The original is supposed to be set in the Optima typeface, which is a flared sans-serif, while this logotype letters are flat-ended. I propose to replace it with the one found here https://www.w3.org/Illustrations/ named "LetsShare.ai.ps" and dated 1993-07-08.

Here it is attached as a SVG file, converted without any modifications from the original PostScript file.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fakefunk (talk • contribs) 18:36, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Osscarduran.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:08, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Revamp History

If there's no objection, I'd like to replace the History section with User:Brunnock/WebHistory.

It's more concise, yet covers the major topics of the past 30 years.

Sean Brunnock (talk) 15:15, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Did it. Sean Brunnock (talk) 13:05, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Could folks please discuss the issues here? Thank you. Sean Brunnock (talk) 14:13, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

I had a quick glance and the difference isn't clear to me. A more extensive history would be nice. The existing text is accurate but a bit simplistic. Rp (talk) 22:04, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

The last history section went up to 2004. So, this one is more extensive.

If you want more, there's History of the World Wide Web.

Sean Brunnock (talk) 22:31, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Expanded the History section on this article slightly, with citations, and added and restored more extensive history at History of the World Wide Web. Whizz40 (talk) 17:00, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2022

The World Wide Web has become world's dominant software platform.

I think that the text above is wrong and I think it should be changed to have a "the" after the "become" in the sentence and before "world's" because it is a grammar mistake and it sounds wrong.

Thank you, RajveerOHGS. RajveerOHGS (talk) 10:15, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:43, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2022

Changes of who invented World wide web as 2 people invented it Tim berners Lee and Robert Cailliau. Olly440 (talk) 19:11, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please provide sources that list them as co-inventors. Preferably enough to show that the common view in reliable sources is that they invented it together. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:18, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cailliau

Gillies, James; Cailliau, Robert (28 September 2000). How the Web Was Born. Oxford University Press. p. 197. ISBN 9780192862075.

https://archive.org/details/howwebwasbornsto00gill/page/197/mode/2upn page 197 Olly440 (talk) 13:46, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

As the project evolved, Robert became its evangelist. He fought hard to get resources, he set up the first ever welcome page for CERN, and he made sure that when the Web was offered as a service for physicists, it was reliable and well run. Tim, on the other hand, was content to bury his head in the bits and develop his software.

This doesn't suggest "coinvented" to me. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 14:09, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

From Weaving the Web-

Despite the "Buy, don't build" credo, I came to the conclusion that I was going to have to create the Web on my own. In October 1990 I began writing code for the Web on my new computer...By mid-November I had a client program -a point-and-click browser/editor - which I just called WorldWide Web. By December it was working with the Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) I had written...I also wrote the first Web server-the software that holds Web pages on a portion of a computer and allows others to access them... I started the first global hypertext Web page, on the info.cern.ch server, with my own notes, specifications of HTTP, URI, and HTML, and all the project-related information. At this point Robert bought his own NeXT machine...

So, Tim developed everything by the time Cailliau got his workstation. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 14:21, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

And straight from Tim himself, Some commentators suggest that Robert co-invented the WWW. To set this straight, he did not invent it.

https://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/FAQ.html#Cailliau — Sean Brunnock (talk) 14:05, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Invention Year

This article claims that Tim Berners-Lee invented the Web in 1989. In reality, he started working on the code in 1990 and got it working on Christmas. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 13:13, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

It is often difficult to put a single date on when somebody "invented" something, since ideas rarely come from nowhere, or take on their final form immediately. As discussed on History of the World Wide Web and elsewhere, 12 March 1989 is the date Tim Berners-Lee first circulated the proposal for the project at CERN; it took a few months to get funding, and a few more to get a working prototype.

The sentence "Sir Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web in 1989." appears at the top of his biographical page on the W3C website, so it's clearly a date he himself is comfortable describing that way. - IMSoP (talk) 22:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

His proposal was just a proposal. It wasn't even a plan. It didn't mention HTTP, HTML or even the Internet. See for yourself. The Web simply didn't exist in 1989. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 10:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Wiktionary defines "invent" as "To design a new process or mechanism."; the Cambridge Dictionary gives "to design and/or create something that has never been made before"; Collins Cobuild says "If you invent something such as a machine or process, you are the first person to think of it or make it." By all of these definitions, it is reasonable to say that Berners-Lee invented could "invent the web" as an idea, even if it was not yet implemented.

In fairness, Merriam-Webster's definition is subtly different: "to produce (something, such as a useful device or process) for the first time through the use of the imagination or of ingenious thinking and experiment". By that definition, you would be right, Berners-Lee should date the "invention" to when he first "produced it", in 1990.

Perhaps the best solution would be to reword the sentence to separate the question of who invented it, from the timeline of when it was conceived and developed. We currently have this:

> The Web was originally conceived as a document management system. It was invented by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN in 1989 and opened to the public in 1991.

We could perhaps reword to this:

> The Web was invented by Tim Berners-Lee at CERN, and originally conceived as a document management system. The first proposal was written in 1989, and a working system implemented by the end of 1990.

Note that we have a separate article on the History of the World Wide Web which gives much more context to these dates. - IMSoP (talk) 17:34, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

TBL made a proposal for an internal document management system in 1989. His proposal says nothing about the Internet or other networks. It's the first sentence in his proposal: This proposal concerns the management of general information about accelerators and experiments at CERN. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 19:03, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

We could endlessly debate the similarities and differences between the initial proposal and what was eventually built, but it doesn't seem to be in dispute that it was a proposal for the same project.

As such, I think the 1989 date deserves to be mentioned in some way as a significant early milestone in the web's history. I have proposed an alternative wording that tries to convey that connection in a more nuanced way; perhaps if you don't like that wording you could offer your own? - IMSoP (talk) 19:23, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

It was definitely not a proposal for the same project. TBL proposed an internal system that relied on CERN's internal network. Again, the proposal says nothing about HTML, HTTP, or the Internet. Hell, initially, TBL wasn't even going to develop any software. He tried for months to find a vendor with an existing solution or one that could be modified. It wasn't until 1990 that he decided to develop his own platform. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 19:41, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Again, we're just getting into the weeds of language, rather than any useful facts. Is it "the same project" if, during the discovery phase, some of the details change? If there were a series of drafts of the system with different dates, could we point to one of them and say "that one is the first one that is the Web, the others are something else"?

Certainly, the lack of mention of the internet in particular is striking in hindsight, but other key concepts are definitely there: hierarchical and keyword-based systems are explicitly rejected in favour of referencing resources by their "network address"; the idea that it must be fully distributed and decentralized is absolutely central; the need to access existing data in heterogenous systems is explicitly mentioned as a departure from previous hypertext systems; and so on.

Tim Berners-Lee himself clearly considers the World Wide Web to be the fruition of that proposal, as seen in his biographies and history pages: [1], [2], [3], etc. I don't see any evidence that the original idea was thrown away and replaced, rather than evolving into what we now know.

As far as I can see, not mentioning the proposal at all would be like having the article for Notre-Dame de Paris only list the year 1345, because clearly when it was begun in 1163, it was "not the same cathedral". So again I appeal to you: how would you word that sentence, to distinguish the proposal from the end result? - IMSoP (talk) 22:01, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

There were lots of influences on the Web. Let History of the World Wide Web cover them. This article can simply state that the first website went online in 1990. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 12:06, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

I stand by my analogy: you would not say that the foundation stones of Notre Dame were "an influence on the cathedral", however differently the cathedral was conceived when they were laid. The 1989 date is frequently referenced in other sources as the start of Tim Berners-Lee's project to create a distributed hypertext system, the result of which was the World Wide Web; you have not presented any sources that dispute that direct link, so I see no reason not to include it as the recognised start of the project. - IMSoP (talk) 14:50, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

There was no web in 1989. That's just a fact. If you state that the proposal marks the "invention" of the Web, then you'll be giving ammunition to folks who want to insist that Cailliau coinvented the Web since he cowrote the proposal. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 15:01, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

OK, now you're getting close to trolling. Firstly, I long ago conceded that "invented" is a problematic word, and suggested new wording that avoids it. Secondly, Robert Cailliau was not involved in the 1989 proposal in any way, and the fact that he wasn't is in fact one of the major pieces of evidence against considering him a co-creator. Finally, Wikipedia does not welcome Original Research; find a source that backs up your interpretation of events, and we can continue the discussion; otherwise, there's nothing more to say. - IMSoP (talk) 15:18, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Here's your source. I'm not trolling. I'm just stating easily provable facts. — Sean Brunnock (talk) 15:32, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

The easily provable facts are: 1) In 1989, Tim Berners-Lee wrote a proposal for a distributed hypertext project at CERN. 2) In 1990, he started working on a distributed hypertext project at CERN. 3) In 1990, he co-wrote another document which, according to its preface, "describes in more detail a Hypertext project". 4) Shortly after that second document, he distributed a working implementation of a distributed hypertext project.

The only thing left to dispute is whether these were all "the same" distributed hypertext project. It's clear from multiple pages I've already linked to that TBL himself thinks they were, and I have yet to see any evidence that contradicts that. - IMSoP (talk) 19:14, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Support the wording proposed by IMSoP. Whizz40 (talk) 07:02, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Ecology

3 types of snakes found in Zimbabwe. Include Shona/Ndebele/Common English name/Botanic name/Scientific name — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.221.254.2 (talk) 16:43, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

What is web site

a website is a collection of linked web pages (plus their associates resources) that share a unique domain name 113.199.228.86 (talk) 13:18, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

"World Wide Wiretap" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect World Wide Wiretap has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 July 10 § World Wide Wiretap until a consensus is reached. Mdewman6 (talk) 19:57, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2023

102.164.186.6 (talk) 22:21, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 22:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)