Talk:Women's rights/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Anti-western bias

There seems to be little critizism of islam in the part about the qoran. While there are many falshoods in the part about christianity (in renaissance section). Like that it were the chruch who burned witches, even thought they were the people who stopped them. Another strange line is in the part about Germany, baltic countries and Scandinavia, where it is claimed that that the reason people who killed, kidnapped or harmed women were punished harder and had to pay more to the victim were because women were valued for breeding (nothing else). Where do this opinion come from and could there be another reason?

It is also abhorrent that race has been mixed into this article. What do slavery and race has to do with womens right, especially in the western world? The USA is the only country that even had another race living in their country. This is about women, not Africans. It is also peculiar that the reasoning behind why women should not have equal rights has been lost, the only thing that is said again and again is inferior. In what way were they viewed as inferior and why would it be a bad idea for society to give women equal rights as men? One prominent argument I can remember were that women would stop marrying many men, especially those with less income, creating problems.

Trough the article it is an obvious anti-western bias. It is also important not to over dramatizise womens conditions in history (in every country). There is no evidence that they have lived less comfertable lives than males. If a women suffered it were probably two men that did the same.2.150.51.3 (talk) 22:40, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

One year later and it's still biased. Never change, Wikipedia, never change! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.62.89.155 (talk) 13:25, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2017

{{subst:trim|



(quote)::"GIVE THE SUCC"

cue:

 Not done The change you wish to make is unclear. --Izno (talk) 18:06, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Not in depth enough

I'm not a women's rights expert so I turned to Wikipedia as a place to learn. I learned basic history but I didn't learn why. It is very difficult for me as someone living in 2017 to understand how 50% of the population were allowed to be treated as inferior. Did none of these people have daughters? Who were naturally curious and bold etc? Did they not understand that women were human beings?

I understand that sexism and misogyny still continues today, but most ssxism today seems to be rooted in women being physically smaller and perceived as more vain or into their looks. I don't understand though how if we rewind the clock...that equals women having to pay a dowry to get married, not being able to inherit property etc.

Were women allowed to speak at the dinner table? Were they allowed to have opinions? How did all these sons feel about their mothers? Did they not see their mothers as intelligent or wise? What did the people of yester year think of female writers like Mary Shelley? How did a society that devalued women so much allow Queen Elizabeth II to rule? Why did they look up to Joan of Arc in France?

So much is confusing. I would love an expert on this subject to expand on the history section, and maybe get some anthropologists and gender theorists, anthropologists to try and paint a better picture of how this all happened.

My guess this had to do with birth rates? In order to minimize infant deaths women were kept to domestic work..but that still doesn't explain why someone wouldn't be allowed to own property? Were women ever loved? By their children or husbands? How could the people who love women allow them to be treated in such a way?

Just so many questions. I want to learn. Teach me!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.152.60.133 (talk) 10:28, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

History section > Greece

The History - Greece subsection contains the same text as in the Women in Greece "Social, legal and political status" Subsection, and links to "Women in Greece" as main article. So I will cut the text in the History - Greece Subsection down a little, since the full information can be found in the main article.--Peabodybore (talk) 10:18, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

I did the same for the ancient Rome subsection--Peabodybore (talk) 11:38, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Reviewing

There isn't enough information upon the reason why women has to fight for the idea to have equal rights with men. Over history, this has taken the form of gaining property rights, the women's right to vote, or the right of women to vote, (rights of people to have children as they choose), and the right to work for for equal pay. The reason being that women can also have the same job and work hard just as men. Overall, the format in this article gave a good idea that women should have the same abilities and advantages as a man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trankhayla (talk • contribs) 02:41, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

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The abortion procedure infographic...

Anyone else find this ill-placed and inappropriate? I mean, I don't any of us are about to disagree that abortion rights have an important role in that section of the article, but surely there must be some image which relates to the social movement surrounding it as a historical topic (which is the real topic here) rather than visual representation of the clinical inducement process for one particular procedure? It feels tonally out of step with the content in that section, the rest of the article, and appropriate weight. I very nearly went WP:BOLD on this and pulled it, pending finding another image to replace it, but I decided this is an important enough article that I should explain first, and solicit suggestions for another image. Snow let's rap 09:04, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

What made the Writers of this page put in facts about religion??? Amarsha8 (talk) 19:27, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Muhammad and Women's Rights

The women's right's page gives the misleading impression that Muhammad improved women's rights under Islam and that this was codified in the Koran. Here are some quotes from the Koran that make it clear that Muhammad was hostile to women. 

       "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women. " Koran Vol. 1:28, 301; Vol. 2:161; Vol. 7:124

Muhammad told women: 

       "I have not seen any one more deficient in intelligence and religion than you." Koran Vol. 2:541

and Muhammad quoted Allah as saying: 

       "I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."  Koran 7:33

If you are an infidel woman seized in Jihad Muslims have the right to enslave you. Muhammad told his army:

33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you ... the slave girls whom God has given you as booty."[1] 

The New York Times published the following on August 13, 2015.

QADIYA, Iraq — In the moments before he raped the 12-year-old girl, the Islamic State fighter took the time to explain that what he was about to do was not a sin. Because the preteen girl practiced a religion other than Islam, the Quran not only gave him the right to rape her — it condoned and encouraged it, he insisted.

He bound her hands and gagged her. Then he knelt beside the bed and prostrated himself in prayer before getting on top of her.

When it was over, he knelt to pray again, bookending the rape with acts of religious devotion.

“I kept telling him it hurts — please stop,” said the girl, whose body is so small an adult could circle her waist with two hands. “He told me that according to Islam he is allowed to rape an unbeliever. He said that by raping me, he is drawing closer to God,” she said in an interview alongside her family in a refugee camp here, to which she escaped after 11 months of captivity. “He destroyed her body. She was badly infected. The fighter kept coming and asking me, ‘Why does she smell so bad?’ And I said, she has an infection on the inside, you need to take care of her,” the woman said.

Unmoved, he ignored the girl’s agony, continuing the ritual of praying before and after raping the child.

“I said to him, ‘She’s just a little girl,’ ” the older woman recalled. “And he answered: ‘No. She’s not a little girl. She’s a slave. And she knows exactly how to have sex.’ ’’

“And having sex with her pleases God,” he said.

This belief in the right to enslave infidel women come's in part from Muhammad's own behavior toward infidel women as well as behavior he condoned in his army. According to Ibn Ishaq, "The apostle went out to the market of Medina and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for the men of Qurayzah and struck off their heads as they were brought out to him in batches until 600 to 700 of them were dead. The Jewish women and children were enslaved and Muhammad took the most beautiful one of them, a fifteen year old girl named Rayhana bint Zayd ibn Amr as a personal slave. [2]. When Muhammad was 51 years old, he chose to marry a 6 year old child, a marriage he consummated when she was 9 years old, he explained that God wanted him to do so. [3]

There is a lot more information about the Koran's attitude toward women in a web page called "Muhammad Then and Now" [4] and a sister page called "Islam and Women" [5]. Muhammad Then and Now is especially valuable as it shows how his teachings influence modern day Islamic behavior toward women. The Islam and Women page has many videos showing how women are treated today under Islam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.212.0.133 (talk) 09:52, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://books.google.com/books?id=5CyXBHYGaDIC&pg=PT78&lpg=PT78&dq=33:50+-+%22Prophet,+We+have+made+lawful+to+you+...+the+slave+girls+whom+God+has+given+you+as+booty.%22&source=bl&ots=NCceFOYk5S&sig=T6gu6AV8dIRlnKHZDki7d_DVU2Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ4s29-orfAhWoVN8KHXl7ChwQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=33%3A50%20-%20%22Prophet%2C%20We%20have%20made%20lawful%20to%20you%20...%20the%20slave%20girls%20whom%20God%20has%20given%20you%20as%20booty.%22&f=false
  2. ^ https://www.amazon.com/Life-Muhammad-I-Ishaq/dp/0196360331
  3. ^ (Sahih Bukhari 5.236)
  4. ^ http://thoughts-everything.com/shelp/muhammad.htm
  5. ^ http://thoughts-everything.com/jihadpages/women.htm

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2018

I have put a challenge to the section on Islam and women's rights in the talk section. I wasn't registered when I put it in. I would like a disputed tag to be placed in the section on Islam with a link that will take the user to the talk section. Geebor (talk) 12:44, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done in good faith, without judgement about whether the requester's dispute is valid or not. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:21, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Request of Help

I was looking for some small help. I created an article Valentine's Day in Pakistan. While article subject orientation is related to Romance relationships and festival, but in some parts of the world it touches serious issues like violations of women's rights & Human rights At this stage looking for help in better chronological order within article, and continued copy edit help in times to come.

Thanks in advance.

Bookku (talk) 05:02, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Can we include sub categories of violence against women in different industries

Every industry has its own dynamic and women are violated in specific ways that pertains the culture of each industry they work in. Articles around that would be a great addition. KarenEmma (talk) 01:25, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Requesting copy edit help

Hi,

In draft namespace I created a new article relating to one of well known feminist Category:Catchphrases namely Draft:My body my choice (Feminism) to be included in category Category:Feminist terminology. It is far from complete and needs proactive copy edit support to include related remaining aspects.

Suggestions about suitable references are welcome on Draft talk:My body my choice (Feminism)

Thanks in advance. Warm regards

Bookku (talk) 10:55, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Can we include a sub category just for Black Women? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrittneyJ28 (talk • contribs) 19:14, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

"Women's emancipation" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Women's emancipation. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. feminist (talk) 14:11, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Requesting wider attention

I felt article Islamic_literature is in bit of neglect so I added my note on talk page there, requesting to take note of Talk:Islamic_literature#Article_review. If possible requesting copy edit support. Suggestions for suitable reference sources at Talk:Islamic_literature is also welcome.

Posting message here too for neutrality sake


Thanks and greetings

Bookku (talk) 07:38, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2020

I want to add Ciokaraine M'Barungu as a woman who fought for women's rights in Africa. The article doesn't have any references to women's rights movement in the African continent in the "Modern History" section of the current article, which I consider as an act of racism. Hitigor (talk) 12:36, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBriTalk 13:08, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I want to include these sources if it's possible: https://www.sahistory.org.za/article/history-womens-struggle-south-africa https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199846733/obo-9780199846733-0005.xml https://www.jstor.org/stable/25483719?seq=1 https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Global+Feminism:+Transnational+Women%E2%80%99s+Activism+Organizing+and+Women%E2%80%99s+Rights&publication+year=2006&author=Snyder+Margaret&pages=24-50 https://books.google.com/books?hl=uk&lr=&id=dfATCgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PR5&ots=3RGD_-CEz-&sig=AJwq-Nhpw3tAXFX-XxHNV_Sd5vw — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hitigor (talk • contribs) 14:22, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Peer review request

Requesting peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Women in Islam/archive1,

Bookku (talk) 10:06, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 March 2021

an grammar error Ambrogio was here (talk) 21:00, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Zupotachyon (talk) 22:21, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Well-sourced

This is a well-sourced page. I read it yesterday, and I'm impressed by its thoroughness and sourced effort. I only saw one tag about needing a citation, a tag under the "Qur'an" subhead saying "This section's factual accuracy is disputed.", and a tag saying a better source is needed. Gender Roamer (talk) 22:34, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Vonney25.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Judith gtrz.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 February 2020 and 30 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jamae623.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 7 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Georgina02.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 February 2022

Proposed Change: Removal of "Natural Rights" section. This section and its 8 references are all from a single book The Bible, Natural Theology and Natural Law: Conflict Or Compromise? By Robert A. Morey. The passages in the book that serve as refences to statements in the article are mostly tertiary sourced themselves, and often entirely without source/citation. The chapter "Natural Law" begins on page 289, and appears to be extraordinarily biased [1]. Page 282 is also referenced, and is equally problematic.

An element of the "Natural rights" section that sticks out is the inclusion of John Locke as a "17th century natural law philosopher" and then claim "Like the ancient philosophers, 17th century natural law philosophers defended slavery and an inferior status of women in law." This is incorrect. Please forgive my assertions, but it is difficult to prove the absence of something with sources.

There are also claims of William Wilberforce and Charles Spurgeon advocating for women to have equal rights to men, when this is not sourced or cited, and I have yet to find any evidence of this assertion in my cursory research.

A large part of my suggestion for removal of this text is that primary sources are easily available for many of these philosophers, often in English without translation.. e.g. John Locke [2] [3]. If this section is ruled as accurate and should be included (which I am currently skeptical of) it should not be difficult to reference multiple sources, including ample primary source references, instead of one dubious and extremely biased book. JMD415 (talk) 17:30, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

 Done -- Asartea Talk | Contribs 15:13, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://books.google.com/books?id=Ct2P-AUUMe0C&q=Dr+Robert+a.+Morey#v=onepage&q=The%20Foundation%20of%20Natural%20LawNatural%20Law&f=false
  2. ^ https://oll.libertyfund.org/person/john-locke
  3. ^ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke/#PrimSour

Orphaned references in Women's rights

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Women's rights's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "UNICEF2016":

  • From Female genital mutilation: UNICEF 2016.
  • From Gender equality: "Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting: A Global Concern" (PDF). New York: United Nations Children's Fund. 2016. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2017-02-10. Retrieved 2020-12-26.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 03:31, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

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