Talk:Vokkaliga

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Groupism i.e., Caste origin[edit]

The origin of groupism i.e., caste seems to have started with people trying to refer to themselves as one group. There was no divisions and sub divisions until different people started competing for the same resources and had to organize themselves into groups to improve their chances in competing.

Lathead 12:05, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Subdivision origin[edit]

Another reason for groupism came from the profession followed by the differnt groups. As people changed professions, they also had to change names to reflect those professions. However they needed to differentiate themselves from people who were already using those professional names. So as people took up farming they had to call themselves Vellala. However since other groups were using Vellala as title, different groups with additional names were created. Thus were created the various groups of Vellala.

Lathead 9:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Kempe Gowda[edit]

Hi,

Among the various sects of Gowdas, Vellalas form a small group. The Major Vokkaliga sects are Gangadikar, Morasu and Kunchitiga.

Also, From the Salem Chronicles, it appears that Kongu Nadu was a part of Gangavadi till it was annexed by the Tanjur Cholas in the 10th Century. Kongu appears to be the Tamil version of Gangawadi. Kongu Vellars seem to be the Gowdas who did not migrate out of Kongu Nadu once it was part of the Chola Kingdom. We know that there was otherwise an exodus of Gowdas from Gongu Nadu to other parts of Gangawadi that managed to come out of Chola Rule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellasitis (talk • contribs) 17:35, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tamil origins?[edit]

Some families of Okkaligas might have been identified with Tamils. However, it is ridiculous to attest that origin to entire Okkaliga community in Karnataka. In fact, the title gowda could be found among Tuluvas too. Also, there is a small community of Gowdas in Tulu Nadu that speak Are Bhashe, a dialect of Kannada. If one observe South Dravidian language tree Tulu branched the earliest before Tamil-Kannada. So Gowdas or Okkaligas were there in Karnataka before their emergence in Tamil Nadu. I'm deleting such propagandist material from the article.

ARE Bashe is the term used in Bangalore for pure Tamil. Tamil is known as Are Bashe on Aravamu in most Telugu speaking places.

Manjunatha (17 Apr 2006)

This sentence has been in the article from a long time and is found in other reference materials in the internet. Although what you might be saying is partially or fully true. Before brading statements as Propagandist and unilaterally removing items. Please discuss or it will only lead to edit wars 64.201.162.1 19:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

“Gowda is a low ranking agriculturist caste group that typically exhibits the Dravidian socio-cultural characteristic of consanguineous marriage. It is believed to have moved in from the adjoining area of Tamil Nadu.”
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=515297RaveenS 13:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above cited paper has this: "Though the Gowda is known to have moved in to Karnataka from the adjoining area of Tamil Nadu, our study reveals that Gowda cluster with the studied populations and not with Tamil groups." in the DISCUSSION section. This also challenges the generalizing statement about Gowdas having migrated wholly from Tamil Nadu.

Some Issues I find in logic above: This paper is talking about Gowdas aand Vokkaligas as being the same? elsewhere it is argued that gowdas are not a caste but a generic title. Both Vokkaligas and Lingayats are classified as OBC in Karnataka. Lingayats and Vokkaligas inhabit different districts with different socio-cultural fabric it is hard to compare them. A large number of Lingayats feel that they are not Hindus. The socio cultural characteristic of consanguineous marriage was prevalent among hindus when in Mahabharata Subhadra married her first cousin Arjuna. - tellasitis

Friendly warning[edit]

I'm not very knowledgable about the area of this article. However, I've noticed there is a huge amount of material being constantly added, none of which is sourced. At some point, if sourced need to be provided. BashBrannigan (talk) 18:33, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs heavy editing[edit]

The article needs trimming back again -- most of it now may not be a copyright violation, but it's mostly unsourced or weakly sourced, and full of self-congratulatory text. Reducing it to a bare stub is tempting. Later today... -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 17:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should the Prominent Personality section be removed?[edit]

I would like to suggest we remove the Prominent Personality section. It's been the most abused part of this article. Editors are constantly adding people with no references. Lists are notorious for this problem. Admittedly, the current list is restricted to people with Wikipedia articles (as a recent editor fixed), but in other articles, I've replaced long lists with just a paragraph within the body of the article that mentions a few (less than 10) prominent figures. A list seems to be an open invitation by new editors to make additions and it makes more work for the rest of us. Opinions? BashBrannigan (talk) 14:37, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

After an editor added even more to the list, none that had articles and none with references, I converted the list to a short section. Hopefully, this will lessen the abuse. BashBrannigan (talk) 01:16, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

TELUG GOWDRU[edit]

I recently heard something about telug gowdru.They follow adichunungiri swamji.Does anybody have idea about it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.140.217.218 (talk) 07:04, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Morasu Vokkaligas were the predominant farming community of Bangalore, Kolar and Chikballapur. They are of Kanarese Origin but speak Telugu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellasitis (talk • contribs) 08:51, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is no one called Telugu Gowda. It is reddy or Naidu and they are no way related to Gowda. Just because a person is multi lingual that doesn’t mean his mother tounge will change. Razing-007 (talk) 09:45, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A telugu Backward Caste uses goud as title, they are Goud's, and they are toddy tappers, they are not related to vokkaligasSuperSonic54 (talk) 13:54, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Location of Morasu Nadu[edit]

Morasu Nadu is the eastern Province of the Mysore state according to:

a. Baramahal Records [24] of the Madras Presidency, (Morsu Vellala got their name because they originally inhabited Morsu Nadu which is the eastern province of Mysore.) b. Edgar Thurston [2] in castes and tribes of India Volume 5.. c. Burton Stein (the region of modern day Bangalore and Tumkur districts was known as Morasu Nadu, dominated by the Morasu Vokkaligas.[26] .) d. TN Government (websites of Hosur and Dinkanikotai state that they were originally part of Morasu Nadu)

However, the article states that Morasu Nadu was at Kanchi based on the works of LKA Iyer. LKA Iyer tates that his conclusion that Morasu Nadu was at Kanchi is based on the following reasoning: a. Its not clear to him at that time what the word Morasu meant. b. So He thought it must be the name of a place. c. Since the Family of Kempegowda migrated from Kanchi in the 15th century, this place must have been at Kanchi. (an assumption)

I do not know why he did not consult the Baramahal records /Edgar Thurston both of which predated his work. He has no new evidence to present to make such a contradiction.

I therefor would propose to delete thie following line that is mis-leading in this article:

According to H.V.Nanjundayya and Diwan Bahadur L.K.Ananthakrishna Iyer it is claimed that they migrated to these areas from Morasu Nadu which they identified with present day Kanchipuram and hence their name.[1].

Regards tellasitis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellasitis (talk • contribs) 05:28, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the following since the information contradicts more authoritative source without providing any reason or necessary evidence.

H.V.Nanjundayya and Diwan Bahadur L.K.Ananthakrishna Iyer (The Mysore Tribes and Castes), opined that they migrated to these areas from Morasu Nadu which they identified with present day Kanchipuram [1] In fact, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellasitis (talk • contribs) 12:39, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction to Baramahal Records without reason or evidence[edit]

The following section contradicts the earlier and more authoritative sources of the Baramahal records and Edgar Thurston.

Hence removing it:

H.V.Nanjundayya and Diwan Bahadur L.K.Ananthakrishna Iyer (The Mysore Tribes and Castes), opined that they migrated to these areas from Morasu Nadu which they identified with present day Kanchipuram [1] In fact, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tellasitis (talk • contribs) 12:42, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Migration of Vokkaligas.

Source: This is a story that I have heard from my father who had heard it from his grandfather.

The story: During the time of Hyder Ali or Tippu Sultan there was a group of vokkaligas living in a village under the Mysore kingdom. This village was situated on top of a hilly region (possibly Kollegal and its surrounding areas). One day, as the local military leader of Hyder Ali posted near the village passed by, he noticed one beautiful girl belonging to the village and asked her to come to his military tent for the night. The villagers did not want to send one of their girls to military leader and hence vacated the entire village in the darkness of the night and came the hill and entered the neighbouring state (now Tamil Nadu). That should be around Sathyamangalam and Mettupalayam. And in due course migrated to various parts of the Coimbatore disctrict.

I wanted to know if someone can validate or authenticate this story. 

(Drsk77 (talk) 19:35, 26 February 2013 (UTC) drsk).[reply]

sorry not true !! Shrikanthv (talk) 05:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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   Dr.B.S.Puttaswamy.  Vokkaligara Sangha (1906-2006) Manoj Publication, 2015 Bengaluru. ISBN 978-81-931078-0-5 Cell 09448522310

References

  1. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference Mysore Tribes was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ Dr.B.S.Puttaswamy. Vokkaligara Sangha (1906-2006) Manoj Publication, 2015 Bengaluru. ISBN 978-81-931078-0-5 Cell 09448522310

VOKKALIGAS MIGRATED FROM TAMIL NADU(KONGU NADU)[edit]

Dear all, 

          There was story among our family that we are migrated from kongunadu of todays Tamil nadu. The story begins like this there was a place sarrounded by hills all around where seven brothers with their one sister were living. One local palekar's son seen that only sister of seven brother and fall in love with her. She was so beautiful that with her long hair she used to bring baby cow by tying them with her long and strong hair. When local pallekars will come and meet the elder brother to get their sister to marry with pallekar son because of difference is cast they deny them. but however palekar will force and threaten them to marry their sister to him. at last he will accept and say that send your son alone to our house after Holi festival we do some rituals then we will conduct marriage. Pallekar will send his son along with two guards to their house. However these seven brothers decided to move out from there they pack all their belongings in seven bullock carts and during the night they kill the palekars son and keep the head reverse and pour the oil and put on the lamp in front of their home god lord BORAPPA (boralingeshwara- shiva) they walk throughout the night cross kaveri river and settle at todays kongaboranadoddi near nidagatta of maddur taluk which is situated in the border of Ramanagara-Mandya District. Even today followers of this God Boralingeshwara will celeberate this occation every year at midnight by putting tambittu (made out of rice powder and coconut water) lamp in their Borappana tittu (temple) after Holi hunnime first sunday. This is also called as Madke Togallo habba (means buy new pots for starting new life of new year)
Hi KADHALI DEVITANAYA GOWDA
I am afraid we are not interested in your family stories, Wikipedia only includes information from reliable, published, sources - Arjayay (talk) 12:17, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello KADHALI DEVITANAYA GOWDA, according to Edgar Thurston, the Vokkaligas of Kongu Nadu believe they are descendants of Ballala Raja of Anegundi who migrated to Kongu Nadu in search of a suitable occupation. Kindly refer to Castes and Tribes of Southern India/Okkiliyan. As far as I am aware the Hoysalas were called Ballala Rajas and they ruled north of the Tungabadra river. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4071:2016:25E4:4014:90BD:74A2:7E69 (talk) 18:10, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

mistake[edit]

I made this edit logged out of my account by mistake.[1] Just informing admin.thats my ip.


Vokkaliga subcastes need seperate pages[edit]

There are many agricultural communities that got the name of vokkaliga, all of them have different rituals and culture only thing common to them is their agricultural profession. Adding all these communities under a single vokkaliga page doesn't do justice to all them. Shashikumar788 (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hoysalas[edit]

Hoysalas are belonged to the Vokkaliga Subsect "Devaramakkalu". Devaramakkalu is orginally from Gangatakaras, who are migrated to Malnad region during Chola period (Cholas are also Vokkaligas) for Palegarike Vritti. Gangatakars who are migrated to Malnad are called in 2 names based on the region, 1) Devaramakkalu in the region of Cholas, 2) Namadharis in the region of Keladi samstana. Devaramakkalu are palegars/administrative chiefs under Cholas. Devaramakkalu name came due to good administration and lot of temples build in Malnad. Most of the Hoysala Kings used use "Deva" at the end of the name (e.g Bittideva, Ballaladeva, Shantaladevi). More information for the above is available in Sringeri Mutt. 122.179.77.53 (talk) 10:49, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:46, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2023[edit]

Ericbourquin (talk) 07:03, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — SamX [talk • contribs] 07:04, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2023 (2)[edit]

Just publish old version Ericbourquin (talk) 07:06, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ericbourquin: Which old version? What's wrong with the current version? Please be more specific. — SamX [talk • contribs] 07:15, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
SamX FYI your ping of Ericbourquin won't work, because you must add the ping and your signature in the same edit, please see the third paragraph of Help:Notifications. This post should, however, notify both of you - Arjayay (talk) 13:31, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism by Trolls[edit]

Lots of content is being mass deleted by troll accounts. Moderators please take action and restore the page protection. Arjunrajhl09 (talk) 03:22, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2023[edit]

Add image of Traditional wedding locket.

Karnataka Vokkaliga Gowda Mangalasutra 'Kalasha Thali'
Karnataka Vokkaliga Gowda Mangalasutra 'Kalasha Thali'
Tamil Nadu's Coimbatore/Erode native Vokkaliga Gowder Thali 'Karamadai Thali'
Tamil Nadu's Coimbatore/Erode native Vokkaliga Gowder Thali 'Karamadai Thali'

Suaryaalhind (talk) 22:58, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: There is no mention of wedding lockets in the article. M.Bitton (talk) 00:24, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The ornament designs are unique to this community. Hence, the images added as reference/guide to display the wedding custom and antiquity of the Vokkaliga Community. Suaryaalhind (talk) 05:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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