Talk:Toys for Bob/GA1

GA Review[edit]

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 16:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures[edit]

It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -
It contains copyright infringements -
It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -
It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -

Links[edit]

Ref style is inconsistent - sometimes it's publishers, sometimes it's full urls like starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com.
Mobygames isn't a reliable source. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 36 is a ref to wikipedia. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
https://crpgbook.wordpress.com/review-index/1992-star-control-2/ - what makes this reliable. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reiche & Ford. "The Only Way To Win Is". Updates from Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III. - this isn't a publisher/work. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Quite a lot of the refs have no access-date. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
When you link to toysforbob.com you have no publisher/website/work parameter. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Had a lot of clean-up to do here, but I think this should all be addressed. Removed MobyGames and tried to improve consistent dates and publishers, for consistency and clarity. The blog post is from Tim Cain, creator of Fall Out. It's already cited in the book, but I thought it was nice to link a web-based version, for people who like to check the footnotes for further reading. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Prose[edit]

Lede[edit]

Could we get a WP:short description? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Lede's should really make out why the subject is notable first. This one says what it is... and then who founded it. The founders being first feels like this is a second prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reiche and Ford separately attended - they wouldn't have attended as a couple. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
entering the game industry - the video game industry, unless they've worked at Hasbro et al Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The lede comments on what the pair did, without ever suggesting this was done as a company. I had to check that Star Control was one of their IPs.
In 2005, Activision acquired them as a studio. - in context this doesn't make much sense. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Toys for Bob team - sounds awful and promoish. Try developers at Toys for Bob. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
of the modern ports of the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy and Spyro Reignited Trilogy. - they aren't ports of those games. They are ports of other games, although arguably they aren't ports, but remasters. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Why does the lede not mention any of the awards? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:16, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to mention the awards in aggregate, but I can expand on that if you think that's useful. I tried to clear up the parts that sounded wrong. The important thing I wanted to stress about their similar schooling is that they didn't meet until years later, after they both graduated. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

General[edit]

Having a "name" section seems awful to me. Can we not either put it into the History section, or get enough info for an "identity" or "creation" section? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Paul Reiche III, Fred Ford - why are these not linked? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The name Toys for Bob was coined by Laurie Lessen-Reiche - who is this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Star Control II became one of the best games of all time, according to numerous publications in the 1990s,[18][19][20][21] 2000s,[22][23][24][25] and 2010s.[26][27][28] It is also ranked among the best games in several specific areas, including: writing,[29][30] world design,[31][32][33] character design,[34][35] and music.[36][37][38] The game also influenced other titles, most notably the open-ended gameplay of Tim Cain's Fallout,[39] the world design of Mass Effect,[40] and the story events of Stellaris.[41] - WP:CITEKILL, try WP:BUNDLING. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is zero mention of Crash Bandicoot in the entire article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They worked on Spyro Reignited Trilogy with "updated music, sound effects, visuals, and voice-overs"; its 2018 release was considered one of the best video game re-makes of all time. - once again - updated from what? And why use this quote? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Only half of the games developed section is cited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:21, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That table probably needs a dedicated refs section. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:21, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The founding and naming seemed like a good thing to pair up, but I could probably expand it with some verified information for how they operate as a company -- if you think that would help. I bundled the citations for clarity and readability. I tried to clarify their involvement in Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, and fixed the ref table for their list of published works. Hopefully that addresses your concerns. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Review meta comments[edit]

I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA and FA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definitely not mandatory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}
- Meta-reply I'll work hard to get this one up to quality. I'd rather have more time or even a hold than to give up. This is my first Wikipedia GA in a long time so I plan on using this experience to learn the standards and process. I am eager to return the favor (and also pay it forward) and help WP:VG when this is done. Thanks for taking this on. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I worked on the first round of edits. I added a few replies above in case there was anything outstanding. Willing to keep working at this to bring this up to GA quality. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Hi Shooterwalker - sorry for the delay - could you add a column for the refs in the games table please? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks for finding time. I know things are weird in the world right now. Added the column, so just let me know if there's anything else. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sorry about the delay - all good, I might do a couple bits of housekeeping, but I'll pass for now, good job. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - Thank you so much! Happy to keep cleaning it up. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:28, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]