Talk:Touro University California/Archive 1

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BetacommandBot 01:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposal to rename article

Although I am not too familiar with the administrative structure of Touro, I think this article should be renamed to Touro University California because this article is entirely about the California campus. In fact, this article used to be named Touro University - Mare Island. Based on http://www.tu.edu/, Touro University seems to be the parent institution of programs separated by location (California and Nevada). To an outsider, it does not appear that "Touro University" is synonymous with "Touro University California." On the AACOM website, the university is listed as "Touro University - California." Another reason to move the article is comes from the new medical school, "Touro University College of Medicine". Even if "Touro University" was synonymous with the California campus (which I don't see evidence of), this new school is directly under Touro College, even though it uses the "Touro University" name. This article should be moved, and "Touro University" should either be an article about the combined California and Nevada programs, or a disambiguation page. --scottalter 03:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Mostly agree. One point to consider, Touro University is in fact based in California, the last time I checked, Touro-NV was a "branch campus" of Touro University, based in California. You are also correct that Touro U is itself somehow part of the larger "Touro College" organization, based in NY/NJ. I don't know if you'd ever be able to find sources that clarify exactly how (legally, financially) these institutions are related. Since that may be practically-speaking impossible, I'd support a move to calling this page Touro California. My only question is, hyphen or no hyphen? I'd go with no hyphen. User:Hopping ^T 06:20, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

At http://www.tu.edu/, it seems that both "Touro University California" and "Touro University - California" are used interchangeably. Touro University Nevada used to have a hyphen, but it was removed here. I'd support without the hyphen as well. This page has all of the Touro health sciences schools listed, and completely separates Touro University California from Touro University Nevada. I wonder if there even is a separate entity of just "Touro University." --scottalter 15:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Changes to Touro University redirect

Now that Touro University College of Medicine has been created, it may be time to change Touro University yet again. Touro University is a "division campus[es] within Touro College," "composed of two campuses - the main campus located in Vallejo, California and the branch campus in Henderson, Nevada" (from http://www.tu.edu/about.php). However, Touro University is now in the name of a new medical school that is not within the Touro University division.

I think Touro University should be turned into either a disambig page, or a summary-style article about the "Touro University division campus" (with blurbs on Touro University California and Touro University Nevada) and a hatnote to Touro University College of Medicine (like {{For|the medical school in New Jersey|Touro University College of Medicine}}). I'd suggest the summary-style article, since "Touro University" appears to be a separate entity with two campuses. --Scott Alter 19:05, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, this is a problem. I think "Touro University" should point to a disambig page similar (or perhaps the same) as the one for Touro.

• One additional point to consider is the article names. Undoubtedly, "Touro University" in New Jersey will have other h ealth science degree programs (Nursing, MPH, pharamacy) etc. So I don't know if it makes sense to have the article only refer to the College of Medicine, will which be a part of Touro U NJ, much in the same fashion that Touro U CA includes an MPH & Pharmacy program. Bryan Hopping ^T 19:21, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I have been following the establishment of the new medical school, as it is close to where I live. I have not seen any signs that they are establishing a separate "Touro University" in New Jersey. According to their web site and local media, only a medical school is opening. Additionally, I highly doubt they would create another branch of Touro (like TU-C or TU-N), given the extremely close proximity to their New York schools. Hackensack, NJ is less than 15 minutes/10 miles from New York City. I would equate this medical school to Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine, more than to the California and Nevada schools (which are 9 hours/600 miles apart). Touro probably wanted to open an allopathic medical school in or near NYC to be directly associated with Touro College. When considering the medical school demographics of the area and searching for a hospital affiliate, Hackensack University Medical Center in nearby New Jersey was probably their best option.

I'll change Touro University to a disambig page now. --Scott Alter 20:13, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Understood. Sounds great. Bryan Hopping ^T 21:10, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Research Section

Hi everyone, I work at Rubenstein and Touro is a client of ours. Re: the cancer center, I want to add the following line to the end of the paragraph: "In April 2009, the project was halted due to the financial crisis affecting the U.S. economy." To mitigate conflict of interest, I wanted to run it by editors first before adding it to the entry. The statement adds beneficial context to the the current status of the project. If there are any questions/concerns to my actions, please discuss on my talk page. // Brycetom (talk) 16:17, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Geography section

I deleted the content of this section and moved the photos to other sections. The discussion here (especially about medical schools in the Pacific NW) did not seem relevant to Touro University at all. shoyer (talk) 21:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

"Jewish-sponsored"

What does "Jewish-sponsored" mean? Is it supported by some tax levied on Jews? Or maybe it gets a grant from the International Jewish Conspiracy? This term should either be clarified, or changed to say "The institution describes itself as 'jewish-sponsored.'" peter (talk) 17:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

So, I spoke to someone at Touro to get a better idea of what the term means since I couldn't really come up with a good explanation. Basically, it means that Touro is Jewish founded and certain aspects of the college (such as Lander College for Men) are dedicated to supporting Jewish studies while other aspects of the college have more heterogeneous populations of students attending. It wasn't the clearest explanation ever but that was the gist of what I was told. I hope that helps to some extent. There is no other "organization" that supports the Touro College system according to the person I spoke with. Hope that helps.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 19:32, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Touro University California/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tea with toast (talk · contribs) 03:41, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Review

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   The body of the text needs to be developed. Some sections are only a sentence or two long.

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   References need full citation; bare urls are not sufficient.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   There are many key sections missing from this article; most notably, a history section and a description of the campus

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   While images are not required for GA status, it would be nice if some free images could be found. Just a photo or two of the campus would benefit the article.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Unfortunately, this article still needs further development to bring it to GA class. Please see section below on ways to improve the article. I would recommend trying to find more third-party sources to help you find more information to work with. You are welcome to nominate the article again after the article has been developed a bit further. Thank you for your effort. --Tea with toast (話) 04:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Appreciate the feedback, I am using your considerations to further improve the article. I will resubmit the article for improvement once I feel I have incorporated all of your suggestions. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Areas needing to be developed

Essential things to be developed

Here are things that need to be included in the article:

• History section: Who had the aim to build this school? How is it connected to the schools in New York and Nevada? Why did they choose to put the school on Mare Island? Being that it was only developed in 1997, you may be able to search through local newspaper archives to find this type of information.
• Campus description: How many buildings are there? How old are the buildings (especially relevant since this used to be a naval base --have they renovated the naval base buildings, or did they build new ones?) Is there on-campus housing? What is the library like?
• Full citations for references is essential for good articles to make sure the information remains verifiable when weblinks get redirected. Also, this article seems to mostly be sourced by links to the school's website; it would be better to find some more independent third party sources.

Other items that would benefit the article

• Description of student body: What is the student enrollment in each program? Where do the students come from? (are there international students, are they mostly from California or how many other states are represented? does the school attract more Jewish students?) What kind of student extra curricular activities are there?
• Academics: The article mentions 3 Masters of Health Sciences, but then only names 2 -- what is the third one? For the medical students, where do they gain clinical education, since it appears to me that there is not a hospital on Mare Island? How many years of schooling are required for the degrees? Are there any part-time students, and if so, how many out of the total school enrollment?
• Research: How many faculty are there? How many students who attend there do research? How is the research funded?

I would suggest to users who are not familiar with what Good articles are to read other GA articles in the Education category. Articles of comparable subject matter include these: Thayer School of Engineering, Geisel School of Medicine, and Marriott School of Management. I would look at these articles to get an idea about what the History, Campus, and Academics sections should look like. Best of luck! --Tea with toast (話) 04:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Review comments

The lead

The lead paragraph says more about other organizations than it says about TUC. I suggest composing a new lead sentence by combining the first sentence of the second paragraph with the list of programs.

Note: it's confusing to link to part of a name as is done with "Touro College and University System". I advise skipping the link and using it if and when Touro College refers just to the college.

TCUS

A good description of TCUS is useful context for the article but I think it's confusing and distracting to reverse the organizational pyramid in this article. I suggest creating a start quality TCUS article (it's certainly notable and worthy of one) and add a link to it here without mentioning the sister schools except where there are collaborations.

History

explain how TUC became part of TCUS.

Additional topics to consider

• notable faculty
• notable research projects
• campus features
• student life

References

I am concerned that the content is so dependent on university sources. The article quality would be significantly improved with fewer primary sources and more secondary sources.

Overall

neutral and factual but seems incomplete and the lead is a little disorganized.

Keep up the good work! Jojalozzo 16:45, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree, someone else wrote that bit about the Touro College and University system. I'll work on the lead since I haven't really done anything with that up to this point. Also, I don't understand what you're referring to when you say "TCUs", can you clarify? Did you mean Touro College and University System? If you did, there's already an article for Touro College, Touro University Nevada, etc. Are you saying there should be a page devoted to the entire system that these universities make up? If so, that's an interesting idea. I have no idea how to create a page however and have no experience with it, I would need assistance with something like that. Also, I don't know what constitutes "notable" when it comes to faculty, research projects, etc and terms like student life seem very broad. I'll see if I can clean up the lead. Regarding sources, unfortunately reliable sources are difficult to find. Appreciate the review and feedback and if you can clarify the few things I mentioned that would be terrific! TylerDurden8823 (talk) 00:32, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, TCUS refers to Touro College and University System. It's not hard to start a new page. The easiest way is to enter the name of the article in the search box. That will bring up a page that says the page doesn't exist and there be a link there that will create the page and open an editor to let you add the starting contents. There are more formal approaches including a Article wizard but I usually take the easy route. Sometimes when I know I need to link to a non-existent page I will create the link in one article, save the edits, and click the red link which also takes me to the page that says it doesn't exist and allows me to create it. I would do this for you but it's a good opportunity for you to try it yourself. I suggest copying the text from this article that you would use to create the page and then either use the article wizard or proceed as I described and paste the content into the editor and work it into an article. Once it's there I can help you tune it up if need be. Jojalozzo 01:22, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Notability is defined mainly by reliable sources like newspaper and magazine articles and review articles in academic journals. This is an important Wikipedia policy for editors to understand. Please review the policy on it.

As to student life, I think the points Tea with Toast brought up about expanding the campus description cover some of what I was thinking of. Are there any interesting (notable) student organizations, along the lines of the student run clinic? Is there a student government or student newspaper?

Good luck. Jojalozzo 01:17, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I rearranged/reworded the lead a little bit to make it a bit more coherent and put the emphasis on Touro University California instead of the Touro College and University system by combining those sentences as you suggested. I will continue to work on the other points you mentioned as best I can. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 00:42, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Any suggestions on where I can find out how Touro University California became part of the Touro College system? I don't really see in-depth explanations of how this occurred and on the about us or history pages on the Touro College or Touro University California page just says it is an expansion of the Touro College system, when it was established, etc. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 00:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I'll have a look around... Jojalozzo 01:17, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I think Dr. Walter Hartwig, Dr. Alison McCormick, and Dr. Jean-Marc Schwarz may qualify as notable faculty. Also, maybe Dr. Michael Clearfield DO, FACOI. There may be others but those few jump out as the likeliest candidates at the moment. What do you think? I can provide you links about Dr. Schwarz if you need me to but I don't think he's difficult to google search. Notable alumni is difficult because it is still a fairly young university. Other things that may possibly be noteworthy-research day (conference essentially held at Touro University California each year). No school newspaper that I can find though there is a quarterly newsletter in the school. There are clubs like any other university but I was not sure if that was important enough (regarding student life) to devote an entire section to on this page. I can if necessary but the references would primarily come from their own website most likely. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 01:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Certainly anyone with an existing Wikipedia article and anyone with newsworthy research. I'm not sure Dean Clearfield meets Wikipedia notability standards. Jojalozzo 02:40, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

TCUS history

It's not clear exactly what "Touro College and University System" is. Here is a time line for Touro College. (BTW, it shows TUC joining the system in 1997 starting with the osteopathy school.) It appears that the "system" may be simply Touro College in New York and all its subsidiaries with "Touro College and University System" being another name for Touro College that avoids confusing the NY campus from the system of campuses. A call to Touro College press relations would probably clarify this. The following is from the announcement of NYMC joining TCUS:

About the Touro College and University System

Touro is a system of non-profit institutions of higher and professional education. Touro College was chartered in 1970 primarily to enrich the Jewish heritage, and to serve the larger American and global community. Approximately 19,000 students are currently enrolled in its various schools and divisions. Touro College has branch campuses, locations and instructional sites in the New York area, as well as branch campuses and programs in Berlin, Jerusalem, Moscow, Paris, and Florida. Touro University California and its Nevada branch campus, as well as Touro University Los Angeles and its Touro University Worldwide division are members of the Touro College and University System. For further information on Touro College, please go to: http://www.touro.edu/media/.

Jojalozzo 02:11, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this article says that Touro University California was established in 1997 and moved to Mare Island in 1999 so that is consistent. Also, osteopathy is an antiquated term, the proper term is osteopathic medicine but that's just a side note. I agree that the Touro College and University System is the Touro College system and its branch campuses. Yeah, I saw that press release as well but it didn't really answer your question with certainty which is why I didn't mention it directly. I can call Touro College press relations and clarify whether or not TCUS means Touro College and its subsidiaries. As for more detailed information on how Touro University California was created from the Touro College system... I can ask them but I think that would qualify as original research as it would be difficult to verify. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 02:16, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

The press office should be able to provide news/magazine article references (not just press releases) to support what they tell you. Jojalozzo 02:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

We'll see what they say after I call them. Either way I have a feeling Touro College will be able to replace TCUS. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 02:38, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

If you call them consider asking them to upload some photos of campus with a license for use on Wikipedia. Here's the link for uploading: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard - or go to http://commons.wikimedia.org and click on "Upload file" in the left hand menu. Jojalozzo 02:46, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Sure thing. I'll talk to them about uploading some pictures of Touro University California to the wikipedia page with the link you've provided (thank you by the way). TylerDurden8823 (talk) 03:08, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Faculty notability

Regarding the notable professors, what kind of references do I need to put for them where the citation needed templates are to verify they are somehow notable? News releases? Examples of their research? Something else? Thanks! I really appreciate your help and it's making the article significantly better. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 01:19, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Press releases are always a poor choice but they may lead you to better sources. I think news and magazine articles would be best in this case. Look for awards and other signs of academic acknowledgement and achievement announced in newsletters of the awarding organizations. Jojalozzo 02:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Other signs of academic acknowledgement...can you give me a for instance? I've just never really looked much at academic awards and cited notability for a faculty member before so it's all new to me. I'll see if I can find some signs of academic recognition and screen it by you first just so I get the right idea. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 03:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Something like this as a reference? http://www.dailyrepublic.com/news/education-news/touro-university-professor-receives-grant/ Let me know if I'm on the right track with things like this. I'll report back with more. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:18, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but that one's weak: it looks like they simply published a press release or parts of one, $114k is a minor grant award, and it's a small town newspaper.

In general, we're looking for major research grants, leadership positions in research institutions, recognition by peers like chairing academic conferences, awards bestowed by academic associations, or election as officer of academic associations. Jojalozzo 04:27, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

It's possible there are no notable research faculty but they may have excellent teaching faculty. Look for textbooks that have received good peer reviews. There probably are awards in recognition for educational contributions but I'm not familiar with that world. Jojalozzo 04:32, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The press office can probably help with this also. Jojalozzo 04:32, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it kind of is in a small town :-/ . Maybe I'll have better luck with Dr. Schwarz. Is it notable for example if he was in a documentary on BBC? I know he's gotten larger grants than the one Dr. McCormick received. Here's an example of a better newspaper for Schwarz: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?pagewanted=all Maybe this qualifies as academic recognition on a small scale? http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/whatsnew/article2.cfm?id=2036 TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, I don't know if this helps for Dr. McCormick. This is from the website that gave her the grant, it's basically a summary of what she's doing. Just making sure I cover my bases: http://www.grandchallenges.org/explorations/pages/grantsawarded.aspx?Topic=Synthetic%20biology&Round=8&Phase=all TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:40, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The NYT article says Schwarz is considered one of the top fructose biochemists in the world. That works for me but the mention of Schwarz as co-author of a study in the UC Davis newsletter doesn't.

McCormick's grant isn't that significant in my mind. Grants like that are awarded every day. Jojalozzo 13:28, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Userbox

Hey - Touro students, here's a user box for you. OsteopathicFreak 19:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

TUThis user attends or attended
Touro University

Claim requires reference

The section about Touro University California's low COMLEX 1 pass rate needs a citation to back up the claim. Without a reliable source as proof this statement should not be allowed to stay on the page due to its defamatory nature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DoctorK88 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 6 September 2011 (UTC)