Talk:The Bells of Rhymney

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Mis-pronunciation[edit]

It is beyond doubt that McGuinn mis-pronounced Rhymney as 'Rim-ney' for many years. It's also beyond doubt that the correct pronunciation of the town place name has always been 'Rum-ney', as Welsh-speaking Davies would certainly have known. What is more intriguing is why Davies chose only a partial rhyme for the opening line of the first stanza and which also provides the title of the poem. Especialy when he was so careful with the other rhymes, even to the point of artifice.

But what was Seeger's original sung pronunciation? McGuinns's mistake has certianly been perpetuated by later artists such as Oysterband. And in 1965 the song was issued, as a B-side to the song "I'm The One", by the group The Chateaus, on the BOSS Records label, with the spelling "Ryhmney" and the pronunciation "Rhyme-ney". Anyone with access to TouTube can verify these facts in a matter of moments. I guess it's quite right to keep these facts out of the article until we have reliable third patry refs. Verifiability not truth after all. But it does seem pretty unlikely that we'll ever get such refs. BridesheadRecarpeted (talk) 13:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In Pete Seeger's original recording, he pronounces the town's name correctly as "Rum-ney" -- the mistake of singing "Rim-ney" was McGuinn's (and The Byrds') alone. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 14:04, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I may be talking rubbish here because I've just had a listen to Judy Collins' version (which was arranged by Roger McGuinn some two years prior to the recording of The Byrds' version) and Judy also sings "Rim-ney" just like McGuinn later would. So perhaps the mistake was Judy's, although it could've just of easily been McGuinn's and he simply passed the mistake along to Collins during the recording sessions for her version the song. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 14:12, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to YouTube, I've just listened again to Pete Seeger in 1963 and, to tell you the truth, I'm not wholly convinced. He seemed to think it was 'rwm' as in cwm! And a non-native listener could go either way on that one - either towards rim or towards rum! We all agree that both The Byrds and Judy Collins got it equally wrong in the 1960s. And 1960s UK folkie Mick Softley also got it wrong. In 1970s John Denver went straight for rim, even when performing in the UK. So did Robyn Hitchcock for his 1985 single. As do the Oysterband as recently as last year. Two more British acts Ralph McTell and Diesel Park West also both get it wrong. Even Show of Hands go for a Seeger-esque rwm. Only Rhyl's Mike Peters of The Alarm seems to get it right. There must be countless other recorded versions from both sides of the pond. The leading rhyme of "give me", of course, could easily sway a non-Welsh singer. A listener mght even think they were the sad bells of Rimini. I wonder how many recordings have it "right"? BridesheadRecarpeted (talk) 20:03, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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