Talk:Telegony/Archive 1

Comments

This entry's "Content" section is similar to but not identical with the linked to summary by Proclus - where is the additional information coming from? Are there other fragments not online? --65.42.108.226 20:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't think there's anything there that doesn't come from published fragments. Remember the online copy of the fragments linked to under "Editions" comes from 1914 -- it's far from up-to-date. Let me see: the bit about "out of the sea" comes from scholia on the Odyssey; the bits marked "presumably" are my educated guesses based on available evidence; Telegonos not realising where he is when he lands on Ithake comes, IIRC, from Hyginus, whose account appears to be modelled on the Telegony independently of Proklos (though that's debatable).

As for the being similar-to but not-quite-the-same-as Proklos, I didn't want to violate Proklos' intellectual property :-) In principle there's nothing to stop anyone copy-and-pasting the text from the 1914 edition, but I don't think it'd be a good idea. It's an ugly translation, and besides Proklos misses some worthwhile details, as you noticed. --Petrouchka 03:29, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

What are sources for this? Odysseus being killed by his own son seems like a much different fate than what is marked out for him the Odyssey. If the first source is from 400(?) AD then I'd be wary of calling it a lost epic poem of the classical age! 50.141.81.8 (talk) 22:39, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Spelling of names

I changed Kirke back to Circe (though with the correct link this time -- Kirke really needs disambiguation) to be consistent with the rest of the page. I personally see no reason to translate names into Latin before using them in English. This is a question that all Hellenists have to face, and while I know Wikipedia's policy is to go for the more popular version, I think this is one of those rules that ought to be broken. Popular and authoritative don't always go together; compare e.g. the most important English commentary on the Iliad (the 6-volume one edited by G.S. Kirk) -- not a Latinism in sight. Anyway, if someone comes along and changes all the names in this article to their Latin forms (all, mind you! -- be rigorously consistent!) I guess there aren't real grounds for complaint. But take a look at a few stylesheets for classical journals first. And just know that, somewhere, I'll be in pain. --Petrouchka 03:38, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

A fan to winnow grain

Doesn't Tiresias say in the Odyssey that Odysseus must travel until he comes to a land where the inhabitants don't know about the sea, and think that the oar on his back is a fan for winnowing grain? Is this ever mentioned in the Telegony? --Siva 22:58, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Alas, the Telegony doesn't survive, so there's no way to tell ... but, probably, this was indeed the foundation of the "Thesprotis" part of the story. Or vice versa: perhaps the "Thesprotis" was the foundation of the winnowing fan story. Commentaries on the Odyssey (see Homer for bibliography) can provide more info, though they universally regard the Thesprotis story as later than Homer (but without any reliable evidence). --Petrouchka 02:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Minor edit re: Nostoi

The Telegony is not part of the Nostoi. The Nostoi recounts the respective returns home of the Greek heroes from Troy. The Telegony is a completely separate entity. Ifnkovhg 05:07, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I made some further changes about the story's content -- the stuff about Telegonus' spear being supernatural and made by Hephaestus is, I think, unattested in any source. Ifnkovhg 22:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The spear was made by Hephaistos according to scholia on Odyssey 11.134 (HQ).

My bad. I guess I know next to everything ;) I reinserted the info. Ifnkovhg 19:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

On another note: under "Latin inventions", where it says "Numerous Latin poets make Telegonus the founder of Praeneste" -- this is a falsehood. Very many Roman poets, and some historical sources too, regarded him as the founder of Tusculum, *not* Praeneste. One solitary source, Plutarch, makes him the founder of Praeneste; but Plutarch wasn't a poet and he certainly wasn't a Roman. I would suggest citing primary sources instead of obsolete secondary sources. 121.73.13.228 08:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Could we fold the "Telegonus" article into this?

They convey almost identical information. Ifnkovhg 05:24, 13 September 2007 (UTC)