Talk:Steve Biko/Archive 1

Date problem

Does anyone have the source that the year 1968 (for Biko starting SASO) comes from? Other sources said he resigned from NUSAS in 1969. Engleman 00:31, 2004 Jun 1 (UTC)

PS: as well as this: http://www.sahistory.org.za/pages/people/biko,s.htm

Biko became disenchanted with NUSAS by 1968 and began organizing SASO, which held a representative Conference in Dec 1968 at Marianhill, Natal; the date which marks the official formation of SASO. It was officially inaugurated in July 1969 at Turfloop University. SASO adopted a policy of maintaining only a functional relationship with NUSAS, and not a structural one. For this reason, Biko resigned from NUSAS after the inauguration.

'I write what I like' - Steve Biko ISBN 1 77010 006 7 2005 JohD 13:24, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Typo? Or accurate quote of a typo?

3rd item under "Quotes":

"The system concedes nothing without demand, for it forumalates..."

The book Biko by Donald Woods

Hi: I don't know where you obtained that source from, but i can tell you that he resigned from SASO, in1971

I don't think this is correct. Biko's term as Publicity Officer ended in 1970. He began doing voluntary work for BPC. In mid-1972, he terminated his course at Wenthworth and began working full-time for BPC in Durban. Technically, he was no longer a student, and could not remain a member of SASO. JohD 13:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Bantu

• An editor removed "Bantu" from the article with the following comment: "the term "Bantu" is actually an offensive term used by the South African government, which refers to the black population. It is NOT part of Stephen Biko's name" – a statement with little truth. Bantu is not a deragatory term (even the words "black" and "African" were used with malevolence in Apartheid lingo, but you wouldnt call "African" deragatory); most biographical sources give his middle name as Bantu; many sources say his father Mzingaye gave him the name Bantu, refering to umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu – a Zulu concept that is translated to English in many ways. --Ezeu 21:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Please add correct pronunciation

bee-co —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.82.101 (talk) 21:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Improvement drive

Black Consciousness Movement has been nominated to be improved on WP:IDRIVE. If you want to see it improved, vote for it here! --Fenice 11:42, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Trial?

and on 7 October 2003, the South African Justice Ministry officials announced that the five policemen who were accused of killing Biko would not be prosecuted because of insufficient evidence. During the trial it was claimed that Biko's head injuries were a self-inflicted suicide attempt, and not the result of any beatings. The judge ultimately ruled that a murder charge could not be supported partly because there were no witnesses to the killing. Charges of culpable homicide and assault were also considered, but because the killing occurred in 1977, the time frame for prosecution had expired

This is rather confused. What trial? If the Justice Ministry ruled out prosecuting the policemen, who was an trial? The independent article is not working so that's of no use Nil Einne 09:31, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Minor error for nearly 3 years!

Ouch. This edit introduced an error which survived for nearly 3 years. I watched the movie "Cry Freedom" tonight waiting to hear the song Biko, but it wasn"t there. So I looked to see if the song is on the CD soundtrack. No. Pretty sad to see this error last that long.--Jimbo Wales 05:08, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Reasons for Biko's arrest

I have seen several references in the past that suggested is was possible, even if unlikely, that Biko was involved in gun smuggling, and that was the reason for his arrest. Here is one link that references this idea: http://members.shaw.ca/cartermyths/Carterbiko.htm While it may not be true, I think there was sufficient speculation at the time to warrant mention in the Biko article.--Mike Melzer 17:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

POV considerations

Let me say outright that I agree with the tone and facts of this article. If, however, this had been written in the period when the apartheit regime ruled South Africa someone from that camp would very likely have attacked it as biased. Most of us now regard Nelson Mandela as a great statesman and a humanitarian, but during his long imprisonment, he was depicted as a terrorist by his government; some, I expect, still think so. Similarly, some Japanese deny atrocities of the Japanese Empire, and many Americans deny the atrocities of the USA at several points in its history.

There are many articles in Wikipedia which are the scenes of heated and ferocious debates about what is and is not POV or NPOV, and what are the facts in question. The religiously inclined, for instance, usually say things that I view with alarm.

My opinion is that a NPOV is impossible in any but the most innocuous context, and that it would be better if Wikipedia recognised that as fact and devised some mechanism for non-destructive debates in these troubled areas. Perhaps those who disagree with the tone or conclusions of an article could, instead of engaging in unproductive 'revert wars' and outright vandalism, [note the slur on the Vandals] be allowed to write parallel articles presenting their own points of view (or biases)? Too Old 03:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is biased. The wording "opening many eyes around the world to the brutality of the apartheid regime" is not encyclopaedic, and very emotive - therefore it is biased. It would be easy enough to use less emotional, hostile and anti-South Africa language here.203.184.41.226 (talk) 19:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Homage

I felt a genuine need within this tapestry of Biko's life for a place where his legacy could be read in the words of tribute from those who have been inspired; or in some small fractional way, stirred by the story of a man in these modern times who walked peacefully from silence to a martyr's death, confronting his nation's oppressors. This homage is meant to be a genuinely respectful tribute. September 12, 2007 will mark the 30th Anniversary of Stephen Biko's death. [ Format: Date of entry (15 Oct 06) - your personal note of tribute. optional name, optional country ]

removed vandalism71.12.194.34 20:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Best known

I've (re)added a phrase to the opening paragraph saying that Biko is "best known internationally for his death while in police custody". You'll find a reference to the way he died in the opening paragraph of every well-written bio for him, and it's the largest section of this very article. "I doubt its true" is no justification for removing it, since the article itself demonstrates that it is true. This doesn't mean it's all he ever did, but the opening paragraph should include a familiar "hook" for a casual reader to recognize, and mentioning his martyrdom provides that. - 66.93.200.116 00:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Martyrdom mention in the lead is probably good, but saying he is "best known for dying" sounds odd and patently false. He may be internationally remembered as a martyr for black nationalism (as Encarta says) or something like that. Smmurphy^(Talk) 01:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Except that it doesn't say "best known for dying" but rather that he is best known (especially in countries where his political activities are not themselves well known, but Peter Gabriel is) for the circumstances of his death. If the statement were patently false, no one would have added it. Calling it "martyrdom" fails the NPOV test. - 161.57.55.36 17:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm looking for a citeable statement about his memory related to his death. He is remembered as a martyr [1], which says as much about his life as his death. The only person who is "best known for the circumstances of his death" might be Crispus Attucks in the US, otherwise the statement just seems like a non-sequiter. I'm sorry that I said this was patently false, I'm sure it makes sense to some, but I can't speculate on how he is best known by most people. I can cite that he is remembered for dying for the cause of black nationalism (this is irrespective of how or why he died, I'm only talking about his myth). I don't know exactly where NPOV or Peter Gabriel come in. Smmurphy^(Talk) 18:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The phrase doesn't worry me much, but let's try some others to get consensus - "best known" is subjective and a bit sloppy. What about "whose death in police custody led to widespread international condemnation" or "who became a martyr of the anti-apartheid movement[2] after his death in police custody". I don't think it's POV to call someone a martyr of a cause - it's clear that martyrdom is in the eyes of the supporters of the cause.Zaian 20:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I changed the lead a bit. I think the lead has a ways to go, though, per WP:LEAD. Smmurphy^(Talk) 22:14, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Quotes

Should quotes from the movie "Cry Freedom" really be included on this page?68.211.176.19 22:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

No. Zaian 09:37, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought so too.68.211.176.19 19:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect statement regarding Mandela's pacifism?

Quoting from [3]:In 1961, Mandela became the leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated as Spear of the Nation, also abbreviated as MK), which he co-founded. He co-ordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid

Good point, I'll put in the quantifier "post Robben Island Mandela." Thanks, Smmurphy^(Talk) 02:12, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it is in general incorrect to view Mandela as a pacifist. In light of the works quoted hereafter, it can be seen that Mandela prefers peace, but has no moral objections to using violence in aid of a just cause. A much better description, based on his advocation of violence/non-violence, would be pragmatist.

THE MANDELA DOCUMENT

http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/history/mandela/64-90/doc890705.html

"White South Africa must accept the plain fact that the ANC will not suspend, to say nothing of abandoning, the armed struggle until the government shows its willingness to surrender the monopoly of political power, and to negotiate directly and in good faith with the acknowledged black leaders. The renunciation of violence by either the government or the ANC should not be a precondition to, but the result of, negotiation." (1)

"The organisation has no vested interest in violence. It abhors any action which may cause loss of life, destruction of property and misery to the people. It has worked long and patiently for a South Africa of common values and for an undivided and peaceful non-racial state."(2)

Profile of Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela

http://www.anc.org.za/people/mandela.html

At the Rivonia trial, Mandela explained : "At the beginning of June 1961, after long and anxious assessment of the South African situation, I and some colleagues came to the conclusion that as violence in this country was inevitable, it would be wrong and unrealistic for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force. (3)

I think that discussion is more fit for the Mandela article (here is a good book, if you want to add some of this there and cite other sources than web sites: Graybill, Lyn S. (2002). Nelson Mandela: Pragmatic Reconciler, Truth and reconciliation in South Africa: miracle or model? Boulder, Colo.: Lynne Rienner Publishers). In any case, there are quite a few sources (which this article cites) which compare Biko's Fanonianism with Mandela's Gandhian pacifism, especially post Robben. I think that is all that line is trying to get at. Smmurphy^(Talk) 19:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"Alleged" police brutality?

Why is Biko listed under a category called "alleged" police brutality? it's not alleged. it's fact. he was in the hands of police, and he was found dead. quite simple 64.142.83.231

There is no category police brutality, BTW. Smmurphy^(Talk) 15:07, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

There is the presumption of innocence, until one has been convicted of a crime, in a duly authorized court of law. Regardless of the number of "strange accidents" that result in the death of an inmate, justice requires that the involved parties be considered "innocent", until convicted. Thus, even though Steve died in custody, he is a victim of alleged police brutality, until a court convicts the alleged perps of the crime of killing Steve. jonathon (talk) 17:09, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Offensive flag

Will someone please remove the offensive apartheid era South African flag from beneath the picture of Steve Biko? What was the rationale for putting it there in the first place?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.210.142 (talk) 19:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

The flag shown was the flag of South Africa at the time of Steve Biko's death. The flag of present day South Africa didn't come to be until after Biko died. As a comparison, you'll note on the page for the American Civil War, the flag in question is 34 stars, not 50 (34 stars representing the number of states in the union at the start of the war, 1861). -- —66.108.217.8 00:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

ANC hostility towards BC

In the intro, someone added: "The ANC was very hostile to Biko and to Black Consciousness through the 70s to the mid 90s..."

I'm not disputing it, but as I don't know the facts, I was hoping someone might provide a more authoritative reference on the matter, thanks. -- —66.108.217.8 00:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Confusion

On 7 October 2003 the South African Justice Ministry officials announced that the five policemen who were accused of killing Biko would not be prosecuted because of insufficient evidence and the fact that the time span for prosecution had elapsed. Is there a statute of limitations in South African law? is that why 'the time span for prosecution had elapsed'? Or is there another reason? I'm rather confused by this statement. If someone with some knowledge of law could clarify this for me, that'd be great. -- Mukk 00:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Photo

I'm annoyed that there is no photo. There is one that would seem to be in the public domain, seen here: http://www.sahistory.org.za/pages/people/images/biko,s.jpg

and here: http://www.nelsonmandela.org/images/uploads/Steve-biko.jpg

How is it that you can cite information on a public website, but you cannot acredit a photograph the same way? -- Fbrhr (talk) 19:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Somebody edited in the phrase "Yihla Moja! Yihla Moja! The man is dead! The man is dead." I'm not sure if this is vandalism or not, but it does not make sense in its current context Shreder 02 (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

If it looks like nonsense, it probably is. Now removed. --Ezeu (talk) 19:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone has inserted an incorect biography in the beginning about biko with Spongebob square pants data and info. I can't figure out how to take it out. It is inflamitory in that it is highly insulting. HAJ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.95.13.124 (talk) 12:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

some ones fixed it now, just as i was going to!Dalek9 (talk) 10:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Bloc Party's song "Biko"

I deleted a reference to a bloc party's song. it has nothing to do with s.biko -> http://blocparty.net/biko.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.185.76.14 (talk) 08:58, 3 June 2009 (UTC) BUM CHEEKS!!!!

but .....

i have been set dis as an re project anyone who has just copied and pasted it all for homework is a fraud do not read dis an beleive it is an idiot wikipedia is just a place were people can write what they want if it is due in da next day as homework den you may hav to just look in a book or a reliable site. please dont use this for homework your teacher can tell and when you copy an paste dis den hand it your teacher will read it an no what you have dont. so tut tut tut. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.109.44.223 (talk) 19:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Biko'd?

I removed a bizarre assertion: vague, unknown veracity since the refs it cites provide zero support, googling brings up this page and not much else

In 2010, the term 'Steve Biko'd' was being used to refer to President Jacob Zuma's introduction of 'deadly force' and the alleged murder of citizens by police 'death squads'. The alleged re-introduction of techniques such as 'hooding' has been described by government critics as being reminiscent of the brutal Apartheid tactics that were used against Steve Biko.

--dvdrtrgn (talk) 21:30, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 87.174.169.6, 18 June 2011

In the university tributes section you should also mention that the restaurant in the Brunel University Students Union building is called Biko's (or at least it was when I was a student there)

87.174.169.6 (talk) 19:36, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I will be happy to add that. Do you have a source?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:26, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I also attended Brunel (1983-1987) and can confirm that the fast food restaurant/take-away (not the main restaurant upstairs) was called Biko's. I just checked brunel.ac.uk and there's no mention of it any more so I assume it has been renamed. I have no supporting evidence, only my memory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.13.131.3 (talk) 18:30, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request from IanDDavidson, 13 September 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Under the Further Reading section I would like you to add Dr Saleem Badat's book "BLACK MAN, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN", which was first published in 2009 by Steve Biko Foundation IanDDavidson (talk) 04:30, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit requests need references - please give a reference and re-request, thanks,  Chzz  ►  01:16, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

 Not done

Edit request on 20 March 2012

he has an aspiring grandaughter who is more likely like him Siphosethu Biko is doing Grade 10 at West Bank High School in King William's Town

41.242.218.238 (talk) 17:12, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Additionally, please be more specific about what needs to be changed. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". Begoon ^talk 02:08, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 October 2012

"2 February 1978, the Attorney General of the Eastern Cape stated that he would not prosecute any police officers involved in the arrest and detention of Biko. During the trial..." This it is immensely confusing and doesn't make gramatical sense. As it states that there will be no trial then talks about a trial. Who's being tried? Also this has been like this for over three years {{subst:138.73.174.183|1 October 2012}}

You're right. It makes no sense. Unfortunately, much of this section is either unsourced, poorly sourced, or the links are dead. Mostly what I did was add a bunch more tags to the chaos. I also removed the "trial" sentence as being hopelessly incomprehensible. I can't tell what's happening in 1978 as opposed to what's happening many years later (2003?). I'll try to do a little research to come up with better sourcing, but I can't promise anything.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:53, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Use in popular music

It should be noted that Biko's image is used in the music video for Artists United Against Apartheid's song, "Sun City"65.87.46.226 (talk) 22:18, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

parents?

Who were his parents? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.105.146 (talk) 03:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Changes made to the subheadings

I have made a few changes for the subheadings under "references in the arts". I divided the contents into smaller categories and made separate subheadings for them. Here is the link to my sandbox, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lisax31/sandbox2 Please give me some feedback on the changes I made to the article and possibly some suggestions on improvements. Thanks! Lisax31 (talk) 04:03, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

false allegations

12:21, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

And that nonsense has been conclusively debunked by just about every historical source. Feel free to keep repeating it though, if it makes you feel better. It's a matter of record that the investigation refused to let anyone look at the circumstances or collect evidence. The old "suspect brought his head into the vicinity of the policeman's fist" shtick is older than coal. If you think people are still buying that line, then I've got a bridge for sale you might be interested in buying. Viriditas (talk) 22:10, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

What is NPOV

What is a NPOV, is it the same as censoring reality? I like to use the Jewish Holocaust as an example since it is highly popularized. Over one million Jewish children were killed in the Holocaust, as were approximately two million Jewish women and three million Jewish men.[5] A network of over 40,000 facilities in Germany and German-occupied territory were used to concentrate, hold, and kill Jews and other victims.[6] Now if I applied the argument of NPOV language I would re-write this sentence to sanitize the harsh reality. but that is not NPOV, it would be WP:CENSOR. --Inayity (talk) 20:48, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

As I said in my summary, the way South African government is referred to is far more negative than all other oppressive governments, even ones that are easilly worse. So it does seem POV to refer to it as "apartheid regime". The harsh reality does not need to be implied every time the Apartheid era South African government is mentioned. That is hardly the same as "sanitizing" the holocaust. Shall we refer Mao's China as the Murderous Regime everytime. That example is "morally" far closer to the Nazi Germany example. When you refer to Hitler's Germany on wikipedia you refer to it as Nazi Germany/Germany not genocidal/racist regime. If I don't mention the fact that Nazi Germany was genocidal everytime it is mentioned in text, am I censoring the Holocaust. Of course not. Obviously "censored" wording shouldn't be used(in the manner you said above) when you are describing apartheid it self. Regards.Stumink (talk) 21:16, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

No you do not need to mention it every second we refer to it. But your rationale of NPOV is incorrect. And you have confused NPOV. As for apartheid it lasted a while and still cast a long shadow. So we cannot compare b/c Holocaust and apartheid are different. And we do not need to compare for me to make the point. It was not used as a comparison. Nazi Germany, is comparable to Apartheid South Africa(that is critical to the sentence). It identifies the government doing the action. Just like Communist China, or Marxist Ethiopia. I do not see any edits that say "racist South Africa" so I am not sure why you are discussing that. My point is NPOV should not be used to censor readers from reality. We do not tone down things under the banner of NPOV. Murder of SA school children is stated as such, if that is what the sentence is about.--Inayity (talk) 21:36, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Well firstly I am saying that it is not "censoring" to not refer to it as "apartheid regime". That is what I was mainly referring to when referencing Nazi Germany. I wouldn't mind it being referred to as "Apartheid Government" or "Apartheid South Africa". That does not seem too POV. It's more the combination of apartheid and regime that seems far more negative than when reference to government of equivalent "horror". Regardless there is no need to reference apartheid on page about Biko since it is absolutely clear what the negative qualities of government are. Regards. Stumink (talk) 21:50, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

On the issue of regime words hold different meanings to different people. The word central to the Biko story is apartheid. Apartheid + Anything is fine. If we were talking about Great White Sharks and shark nets, then apartheid would not be fine--Inayity (talk) 21:56, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Well I guess "Apartheid government" should be fine. Regards. Stumink (talk) 22:00, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Medical controversy

The article fails to cover the controversy involving the South African medical community and their willing participation in Biko's death. Lots of sources on this subject and not a single one in this article. Viriditas (talk) 09:18, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed Edits

This seems to be the only way to edit this page if you haven't met Wikipedia's standards. The third footnote ("Stephen Bantu Biko". South African history on-line. September 2007. Retrieved 20 November 2007.) has an outdated URL. The correct URL is http://www.sahistory.org.za/people/stephen-bantu-biko

 Done Thanks for the suggestion
Unfortunately this page had to be protected due to repeated vandalism - but the requesting editor would only need to make 2 more edits before becoming Autoconfirmed, which is the "standard" required to edit this page - Arjayay (talk) 12:11, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

new entry for music

song: Steve Biko (track #12) artist: Beenie Man album: The Many Tales of Moses released: 1997

a reggae/dancehall song about steve biko — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toddverrone (talk • contribs) 06:06, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

The anti-apartheid musicians' group of the 1990s, Artists United Against Apartheid, made his name known, as well as Dr. Neil Aggett, in the music video for the song "Sun City, as part of a group protest against performing at the casino of the same name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.87.60.39 (talk) 02:12, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

References

A Tribe Called Quest

It seems like it would be nice to add the song "Steve Biko (Stir It Up)" by A Tribe Called Quest to the Music subheading of the Tribute section. ATCQ is a very well known group, and this song was off what was arguably their most influential album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rainybooks (talk • contribs) 19:39, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Someone has done this. Elinruby (talk) 11:32, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Gabriel song

It should be noted that Peter Gabriel's song "Biko" was also used to promote the Cry Freedomfilm a number of years after its original release. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 06:45, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

An additional music reference.

In 1978, on his "Heroes" album , Tom Paxton recorded his song "The Death of Stephen Biko".

Donroby (talk) 17:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

References

External links modified

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small fact-check

was his father's name really "Mzingayi Mathew Biko"? When I looked I saw the first and second names reversed and also Matthew with two t's, which is the standard spelling. Not that there is any law saying he couldn't spell his name any way he liked as far as I know. Somewhat more sources use this version we have here, but a lot of them look like they could have been copied the wikipedia text.

Leaving it alone with this question here for now since I can't find a source that looks authoritative on a quick google. I am just trying to improve the article's writing a little and don't know much about the man beyond that he died. Since Google said it was Biko's birthday, I thought I woulf tidy his grave a bit, so to speak, pull the weed and and leave some flowers. RIP Steven Biko, sir. Respect. Elinruby (talk) 11:28, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2016

On the Stephen Biko page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Biko

in the section “Death and Aftermath,” 2nd paragraph, please change

He died shortly they arrived at the Pretoria prison on 12 September.

to He died shortly after they arrived at the Pretoria prison on 12 September.

Because “after” is missing. Teacher$Abroad (talk) 12:52, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

 Done - by another - Arjayay (talk) 13:39, 18 Decembaer 2016 (UTC)

I just did a copy-edit on the text; I probably made and caught the error as I was doing so, sorry. Apparently the article is more frequented than I realized. But yeah, the copy-edit is intended to be helpful -- like a gift, if you dislike any part of it, please feel free to take it back; I don't claim any expertise at all and will not be upset. I left a couple of topic questions as comments in the text in addition to the question below. Elinruby (talk) 15:14, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2016

Addition for the Music section.

Irish Folk singer Christy Moore recorded "Biko Drum" for his 1987 album Unfinished Revolution. Osullivanj2000 (talk) 15:54, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

 Already done by Irishbitte (talk), regards, DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 06:18, 19 December 2016 (UTC).

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2016 (Grammar, not content)

{{subst:trim|

A student leader who went on to found the Black Consciousness Movement (BCM) which empowered and mobilized much of South Africa's urban black population; he died in police custody and has been called a martyr of the anti-apartheid movement.<ref>"Background: Steve Biko: martyr of the anti-apartheid movement". 73.217.6.98 (talk) 17:49, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Partly done: The semicolon is incorrect, because the "A student leader" phrase is not a complete sentence and refers to the "he" in the main clause. However, there should not be a comma after "custody". —C.Fred (talk) 21:03, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2016

Someone should add to the Theatre, film, and television section that he is mentioned in the 2000 Disney TV Film "The Color of Friendship" which is about a white south african girl coming to stay as an exchange student with an african-american family in the US. His capture by the police is mentioned in the very beginning of the film by the police officer father of one of the girl. And his death and the protests that resulted from it are reported later on in the film and cause the South African Embassy to remove her from her host family in the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CV89 (talk • contribs) 20:52, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

This below says that the "destroying White culture" and "racist in reality" lines were removed, but they were not. They should be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:C556:9F00:0:0:0:1 (talk) 23:28, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2016

This sentence in the second paragraph of the opening should be edited:

While he was alive, his writings and activism had the goal of empowering black people (i.e. destroying White culture).

The parenthetical (i.e. destroying White culture) should be removed. Empowering black people is not synonymous with destroying White culture. Webmeisterx (talk) 23:18, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Someone with privileged access vandalized the Steve Biko page (suggesting that "anti-apartheid" is white genocide, or some such). Please, fix! Fajanglepop (talk) 23:19, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

LunarPhyla's recent changes are not neutral. He added a comment that the Anti-Apartheid movement is "racist in reality" and that Steve Biko's goal was "destroying White culture". He's either trolling or doesn't like Steve Biko, in either case his opinions shouldn't be included in the page. 47.220.137.176 (talk) 23:19, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Done Agreed, edits are not neutral. Removed; if LunarPhyla wants to readd the material, they should discuss on the talk page, present sources, and get consensus first. —C.Fred (talk) 23:22, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Does intro maintain NPOV?

The parenthetical phrases in the below paragraph, from the intro section of the entry, seem to violate Wikipedia's NPOV guidelines. One asserts that the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa was racist, and the other equates "empowering black people" to "destroying white culture." Citations aren't provided for either of these specific claims.

A student leader who went on to found the Black Consciousness Movement (BCM) which empowered and mobilized much of South Africa's urban black population, he died in police custody and has been called a martyr of the anti-apartheid (racist in reality) movement.[4] While he was alive, his writings and activism had the goal of empowering black people (i.e. destroying White culture). He was famous for his slogan "black is beautiful", which he described as meaning: "man, you are okay as you are, begin to look upon yourself as a human being".[5]

EDIT: Just saw this has been addressed. Thanks!

Aprjoy (talk) 23:36, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Citation style

I found the reference list with over 100 separate references to Woods's book overlong, so I changed the referencing style to re-use a single reference. I think it's much better, but now there's a massive list of back-links, which isn't that great. I think we should have a separate reference for each chapter in the book. @Midnightblueowl:, I don't have the book, so I don't know which chapter starts on which page. If you give me the table of contents (by email if necessary: davidrichfield at g mail dot com) I can split up the citations. --Slashme (talk) 11:33, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Slashme, and thanks for your message. I have reverted your citation change for now, as I think that this is something that would require consensus change at the Talk Page first. The citation style that I had employed was exactly the same as that used on other South African biographical articles, like the FA-rated Nelson Mandela article. It is also one that allows for he easy addition of extra citations (as you can see, I have relied heavily on Woods thus far, but will contribute using other sources in the near future). Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:45, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your point about it being easier to add new citations this way: could you explain what you mean? To your second point, there is no requirement that the citation style should be consistent across related articles. It just needs to be consistent within an article. The way it is currently laid out, there are 117 references, of which 66 are to one single book. I don't think that serves our readers very well. As I said, I'm very willing to compromise, and have references to the various chapters in the book, and I'm also willing to do the work to set it up. This is in no way urgent, so I'm definitely willing to wait for other opinions, and I'm certainly willing to abide by consensus. --Slashme (talk) 17:47, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

The currently employed citation style allows for additional references to be added to a given footnote. Thus, in those footnotes where (at present) only Woods is cited, additional citations to Wilson and Mangcu can be added at a later date. It's a very efficient citation system in this regard, which is why it is so popular on Wikipedia. This also means that the current heavy reliance on Woods' book will decline as I continue the process of meticulously adding additional sources over the coming few weeks.

Moreover, I'm really not sure that citing a whole chapter rather than the entire book is any better, and I certainly do not think that it is an improvement over the current page-citation system. Citing the page number of a book or article is a very standard practice on Wikipedia and is used on a very wide array of FA and GA-rated political biography articles (Nelson Mandela, Ian Smith, Vladimir Lenin, Nikita Khrushchev, Muammar Gaddafi, Fidel Castro etc). I really see no reason why the Steve Biko article should be treated any differently. Midnightblueowl (talk) 20:49, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

The other way also allows additional references to be added to a given footnote, both in the visual editor and the plain text editor. It also allows references to a particular page, while maintaining a single reference in the references list, instead of one reference for each page that is cited.

In the plain text editor, it's as easy to re-use citations in both styles, and I'd say that it's even easier to re-use named citations: Surely {{r|Woods|page1=19}} is at least as simple as {{sfn|Woods|1978|p=19}}.) In the Visual Editor, however, it's much, much easier to re-use named citations:

• 
  Finding an existing citation with the visual editor
• 
  Using the rp template in the Visual Editor
• 
  Result of using the rp template to display page numbers
• 
  Re-using citations in the visual editor: separately listed citations are not available

You might think that the visual editor is not relevant to "serious editors", but many non-technical editors use it exclusively. --Slashme (talk) 10:08, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 March 2017

Under the sub-head “Durban Movement” there’s a reference to "Njwaxa Leather-Works Projec,t" - can someone remove the superfluous comma please? (It’s annoying me). Please change "Njwaxa Leather-Works Projec,t" to "Njwaxa Leather-Works Project". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.18.178 (talk) 23:06, 28 March 2017‎ (UTC)

Done. Comma moved behind the t. —C.Fred (talk) 02:42, 29 March 2017 (UTC)