Talk:State motorcyclists' rights organizations

History

This article doesn't go into a lot of detail about ABATE's history - the fact that it is not a national organization does not necessarily imply that it has no history, or that its history is not deserving of mention. I have thus marked it as a stub. --Popefelix 06:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The history of ABATE is a diverse subject, as it is not a national organization in so much each state has it's own history. ABATE's history can be found at ABATE of NY Website. I am in contact with the coordinators and directory from ABATE of New York to request permission to use thier documents as a resource to flesh in the history page section for ABATE. --Hawkwynd 22:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

ABATE History source ABATE of New York --Hawkwynd 22:50, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Progress

I would like to compile a table that shows which state currently have a helmet law, and which do not.

--Hawkwynd 23:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Sources

Finding Verifiable sources for much of the history of ABATE and the individual chapters is going to be hard.

I am going to try and do some research on some of this so that I can flesh out some info on this. Brynath (talk) 22:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Getting a hold of the Easyrider magazines from the 70's isn't easy. plus they are not really a reliable source other than as the fact that there was a general call for people to do something. maybe we can find the original articles of incorporation for the first ABATE organization. I'm trying to go through my local area papers at that time to find some articles on when and how ABATE of Alaska started. I'm also looking to see if I can find references to the court cases that prompted much of the general call to action that spawned ABATE. any info in regards to this would be handy.Brynath (talk) 18:47, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed move to ABATE chapters

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus. @harej 23:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

---

State Motorcyclist's Rights Organization → ABATE chapters — As per Wikipedia:Naming conventions. While State Motorcyclist's Rights Organizations (SMROs) is technically the most correct term to collectively describe the independent ABATE chapters in each US state, it is an obscure and confusing term. The normal way that ABATE is talked about in the media and elsewhere is as "ABATE"; "ABATE of (state name)" is said when disambiguation is appropriate. This will need to be elaborated in the body of article, as the independence of the chapters is fundamental to the Libertarian, States' rights-oriented politics of ABATE chapters. That is, prescribing the use of the term SMRO instead of ABATE is part of their political message, not unlike pro-Life, pro-Choice, etc.Dbratland (talk) 20:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Support - If it is pink, has a flat noise, a curly tail and goes oink then it's a pig. I always believed you should call something by what it is. However, the move wouldn't be appropriate if there are any state organisations which are not called ABATE. Are there? --Biker Biker (talk) 06:47, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Inherently confusing either way . There are ~7 SMROs that don't use the name ABATE, and about 25 that do (Idaho has 2 ABATEs, some states have none). See this list (some are defunct). There is no ABATE of New Hampshire, for example, but if you Google "ABATE of New Hampshire" the top hit is the NHMRO - New Hampshire Motorcyclist's Rights Organization. Mostly because the NH organization started in 1975 when ABATE had not yet spread across the country, so the old name was kept even after ABATE became the de facto umbrella term. DMOZ places the ABATEs in one category and Bikers' Rights groups in a different one, which I argue is misleading, because the state-level Bikers' Rights groups are ABATE chapters by another name. The Motorcycle Riders Foundation is national, and not the same thing as, say, NHMRO.
I concede there is no good solution, and SRMO is more accurate to include the ones who don't have ABATE in the name, but when you say SRMO nobody knows what you're talking about. When you say ABATE, almost everyone (in the US motorcycling scene) knows what you mean.--Dbratland (talk) 17:33, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Criticism section, expansion, etc.

There are other critics of ABATE which will also be cited; they essentially repeat the arguments used by driving beat columnist Michael Dresser, already cited. The Dresser columns, because of the point-by-point rebuttal structure, more or less covers all the bases. Obviously a debate of this kind could go on ad infinitum but I wanted to try to put it in a nutshell. --Dbratland (talk) 21:59, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Moved to State motorcyclists' rights organizations

Since it wasn't moved to ABATE chapters, I moved it to State motorcyclists' rights organizations, because: Not a proper noun -- there is no central "State Motorcyclist's Rights Organization". It is a collective descriptor for various state-level groups, most of them called ABATE of [state], some by other names. And motorcyclists' should be possessive plural.--Dbratland (talk) 00:42, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Possible references

• The Associated Press (June 20, 2006), "Biker dies in crash after anti-helmet gathering", Seattle Post-Intelligencer, A motorcycle rider returning from a rally by a group opposing the state's mandatory helmet law died after crashing into a pickup truck on U.S. 97 outside this lower Yakima Valley town. [...] Alcohol was suspected in the death....
  • Also [23]
• Earls, Stephanie (June 18, 2000), "ABATE -- Biker Rally Turns Ugly; One Killed, Two Injured", Yakima Herald-Republic, Yakima, Washington, p. A.1, One person was killed and two others wounded when a fight between rival clubs at a motorcycle rally near Zillah ended in gunfire, Yakima County Sheriff's officials said. [...] Also, rally organizer Darrll Wynn on Tuesday clarified earlier statements. He said that while other ABATE gatherings are family oriented, only adults were allowed at the event. Wynn said the group didn't want children at its June gathering because alcohol is consumed. ABATE, which stands for American Bikers Aimed Toward Education, educates the public on motorcycles and has lobbied to end Washington's helmet law.
• "Editorial -- Don't Tar All Bikers With Broad Brush of Rebuke", Yakima Herald-Republic, Yakima, Washington, p. A.4, June 23, 2000, Since the shooting, the sheriff's office said it will oppose county permits for future gatherings. [...] That's tarring everybody with a pretty broad brush for the actions of a few troublemakers who, according to one report, would have been kicked out of the rally had it not meant putting some intoxicated bikers on public highways. Pretty sound reasoning, actually. [...] Alcohol was certainly an issue at this particular get-together, even though private security guards were on hand. Perhaps future concerns should center on not only improving security, but doing something about the free-flowing booze at the June events.

--Dbratland (talk) 00:57, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I propose significant changes to this article.

Disclosure: I am an experienced Wikipedia editor who has recently taken up motorcycling and joined ABATE of California. I believe that this article should be moved to "ABATE" as that is by far the most common name for such state level groups in the U.S. I also believe that the current "Criticism" section gives undue weight to criticism by a single commentator, Michael Dresser. The article needs a much better range of references and a broader perspective, in line with the neutral point of view. Comments from other editors are welcomed. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:23, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I tried to have it moved to ABATE chapters before but didn't get enough consensus. You have my support if you want to try again. As far as the criticism, it could be expanded but the tone and content are an accurate reflection of third party observations of ABATE. Most reasonable people who meet a "motorcycle safety" group who wear either skid lids, or no helmets at all, who meet in bars, and who oppose mandatory motorcyclist training, are rather incredulous. ABATE sounds more like a "you're not the boss of me" group than a "safety" group.

Anyway, I would consider the guidelines in WP:COI. If one is a member of this club, it could be more difficult to objectively edit an article on them, in comparison to editing an article on a group you're not personally a member of. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:39, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I joined ABATE just this week, Dennis, explicitly as a Wikipedia editor with nearly 18,000 edits, in the hopes of obtaining access to reliable sources that describe the full range of views on this group. I do not intend to be a POV editor on their behalf. I edit on my own and in support of NPOV, not to advance any group's particular agenda. I am also a Sierra Club member, and edit neutrally in that topic area as well. Of course, this group has that "you're not the boss of me" flavor, but it is not up to us as Wikipedia editors to make such judgments on our own. That would be original research. We are here to report and summarize what the full range of reliable sources say about the topic - not just what one specific reporter wrote in a series of critical columns a few years back. In California, where I live, ABATE holds a seat on the advisory committee for the California Motorcycle Safety Program (CMSP) which conducts safety training under state government auspices, supervised by the California Highway Patrol. I graduated from one of those courses just five days ago. They are also leading advocates for May as Motorcycle Safety Awareness Month, and cooperate with other motorcycle groups and dealerships throughout California. I see them as a bit controversial but not at all a fringe group. But I am just getting started with this article, and look forward to collaborating with you and other interested editors. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:00, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I am not an ABATE member, however I am familiar with a few local chapters. None of them meet in bars. Two of them meet in local motorcycle shops, and one meets in a community center. I ride, so I do understand the helmet arguments. They are hot and diminish the pleasure of having the breeze in your hair. There are better models available now, but the older helmets restricted your hearing and your peripheral vision, which are vital tools to help a rider stay out of an accident. However, this article seems to be missing ABATE's position on the helmet law. ABATE does not encourage or discourage the use of a helmet, it is the motto: "Let those that ride decide." We could make it safer by wrapping a cyclist in a sturdy metal container, but then they would be driving a car. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cklawitter (talk • contribs) 15:57, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

The article says ABATE is "opposed to mandatory helmet laws". Where does it say ABATE discourages helmets? If it says that, we should delete it. Are you referring to the opinion of Michael Dresser? He is a critic of ABATE and we quote him directly so that we don't distort his opinions. That's all. It's OK to disagree with him. Wikipedia doesn't present what Dresser thinks as facts, it's just what the guy thinks. The reason the section requires expansion is that we should include more opinions. Your additions are welcome! Please do the necessary research and expand the article to help balance it.

By the way, the claim that helmets diminish sight and hearing was debunked at least as far back as 1994.[24] Though by inference, the fact that helmeted riders didn't have more accidents in studies like the 1979 Hurt Report is evidence that even 35+ years ago helmets didn't diminish sight and hearing. I don't know what vintage of helmets you're thinking of. The old puddin' bowl helmets didn't cover your ears or block your sight. Either that or sight and hearing aren't vital tools in avoiding an accident, which I don't think is plausible. I think most drivers would like what you propose: making motorcyclists all drive cars. They don't see what good it does them to have us around; they only see the cost, and they don't want to pay. Mandatory helmets are just one way to minimize that cost and avoid an outright ban of motorcycling.

Anyway, please go ahead and expand the article. If you need help finding sources or getting access to premium databases, please say so. There is help available, such as WikiProject Resource Exchange. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:02, 19 May 2015 (UTC)