Talk:Shmaya (tanna)

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Years of Nasi[edit]

According to History of the Re-established Sanhedrin Sh'maya served as Nasi from 60 BCE to 30 BCE, not to 20 BCE.Anomalocaris 00:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of important information[edit]

Ar2332, shalom. I wanted to ask you why you felt it necessary to delete the important information recopied here, below:

The historian Josephus mentions Shemaiah by his Greek name Sameas (Greek: Σαμαίας), who led the Sanhedrin during the transition period between the Hasmonean dynasty and the rise of King Herod the Great.^[1]^[2] According to Josephus, Shemaiah was a disciple of Pollion the Pharisee, who, in rabbinic literature, is known as Abtalion.^[3] Herod held both Abtalion and Shemaiah in great honour.

Does this not add to the article, or perhaps you'd simply like to revise the wording? Maybe "Shmaya" instead of"Shemaiah"?

Footnotes:

^ Josephus, Antiquities (14.9.4)
^ Max Radin, "Roman Knowledge of Jewish Literature", The Classical Journal, vol. 13, no. 3 (Dec., 1917), p. 164 (note 2) concludes: "From the combination Pollio and Sameas, in the passage quoted, it is evident that Josephus had in mind the pair Abtalyon and Shemayah, who preceded Hillel and Shammai as heads of the Sanhedrin (Mishnah Avot 1)."
^ Josephus, Antiquities (15.1.1). This view follows the opinion of Joseph Derenbourg (see Louis H. Feldman, "The Identity of Pollio, the Pharisee, in Josephus", The Jewish Quarterly Review, vol. 49, no. 1 [Jul., 1958], p. 53), unlike the opinion of others who thought that Pollion was to be identified with Hillel the Elder (see Abraham Rees, The Cyclopædia; or, Universal Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and Literature, vol. 18, London 1819, s.v. Hillel).

Davidbena (talk) 10:32, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, it's important information, but it overlaps information found on Abtalion. So I merged the two discussions, and added a link to "Main article: Avtalyon § In Josephus" to direct people to the merged discussion. Ar2332 (talk) 19:12, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see, but wouldn't you agree that if there are two separate articles on two separate individuals (who were contemporaries), that it is only natural that some information would indeed overlap? This is not something that we should be concerned about. The reason being is that if one person searched for Shmaya on Google, he has not necessarily searched also for Abtalion. It's basic logic. Therefore, there is a place to mention this vital information in both articles. IMHO.Davidbena (talk) 20:22, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I left a one line description plus a redirect. If there is a lengthy description on each page, then with time they will diverge and say different things and the reader will not know which is correct. If there is just one page with a lengthy description, all the opinions will be in the same page and both editors and readers will have to take them into account.

However, I had another thought. Literally every story currently mentioned about Shemaya also includes Avtalyon and vice versa. Maybe we should merge the pages into a single one, Shmaya and Avtalyon? Ar2332 (talk) 05:37, 11 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think that merging the two articles is a good and fair option, since the two Sages are always mentioned together. Perhaps you can do this, if you have the time.02:34, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

[1] Josephus, Antiquities (14.9.4)

[2] Max Radin, "Roman Knowledge of Jewish Literature", The Classical Journal, vol. 13, no. 3 (Dec., 1917), p. 164 (note 2) concludes: "From the combination Pollio and Sameas, in the passage quoted, it is evident that Josephus had in mind the pair Abtalyon and Shemayah, who preceded Hillel and Shammai as heads of the Sanhedrin (Mishnah Avot 1)."

[3] Josephus, Antiquities (15.1.1). This view follows the opinion of Joseph Derenbourg (see Louis H. Feldman, "The Identity of Pollio, the Pharisee, in Josephus", The Jewish Quarterly Review, vol. 49, no. 1 [Jul., 1958], p. 53), unlike the opinion of others who thought that Pollion was to be identified with Hillel the Elder (see Abraham Rees, The Cyclopædia; or, Universal Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and Literature, vol. 18, London 1819, s.v. Hillel).

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