Talk:Shlomo Ben-Ami

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Untitled[edit]

Is he Christian? "My view is that, but for Jesus Christ, everybody was born in sin" http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/14/1518230 Pimpalicious 17:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC) ",including nations." He was making a point about nations not about religion nor original sin - personaly I think it was an attempt at rye humour. 17/02/2006[reply]

Euphemisms=Weasel Words?[edit]

"However, he was not considered to be a hard-liner in Israeli relations with the Palestinians." -A "hard-liner"? What does that mean? A euphemism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.69.14.35 (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Euphemisms=Weasel Words?[edit]

"However, he was not considered to be a hard-liner in Israeli relations with the Palestinians." -A "hard-liner"? What does that mean? A euphemism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.69.14.35 (talk) 18:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:13, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

note[edit]

ben-ami was disqualified because of failure in duty during and prior to the riots. to assert his failure was only due to several israeli policemen use of fire-arms, is simplistic and WP:POV. JaakobouChalk Talk 10:49, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He was disqualified largely because of the behaviour of the police, for which he was responsible as Internal Security Minister. The one Jewish death was caused by rock-throwing on a highway and is irrelevant to him losing his job. You are only putting in the Jewish death to make Israeli Arabs look bad, yet another gross violation of WP:POINT.
As for describing me as "someone with POV issues", you are once again entering the realm of the ridiculous. You and I both know that you are one of the biggest POV pushers in the Israeli-Palestinian article sphere. пﮟოьεԻ 57 10:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
lest not get into your overt POV (and support of blatant POV pushers).. these repeated breaches of WP:NPA are getting tiresome event when given some space between them. the POINT accusation is the very reason i charged you with POV issues - please go over WP:COI, WP:AGF, WP:NPOV and also WP:NPA and try to apply the rules.
on point. your assertion that he was disqualified "largely because..." does not matter. he failed to perform his duty by failing to predict and allowing mob riots and failure to defend the public from the mobs and also the death of arabs due to the poorly prepared and controlled system. even assuming (and i disagree with this assumption) that it was "largely" because of the arab israeli deaths and not the general overall failure, there is still no merit in removing the israeli casualty from the text as its clearly related and integral to the description of the events in a neutral fashion. JaakobouChalk Talk 11:07, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is not OR. Please read the Or Commission's report. Ben-Ami was criticised for not readying the police for controlling Arab riots, not knowing the risks of using rubber bullets and that his "actions regarding the operation of the police in the Arab sector was far from positive". The fact is that he was in charge of the police and their actions, not the Israeli Arab community - Ra'ed Salah takes the blame for their actions. пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(1) "for not readying the police for controlling Arab riots" - resulting the death of an israeli-jew.
(2) even assuming (and i disagree with this assumption) that he was disqualified only because of the arab-israeli casualties, the jewish death of october 2000 is still integral to the october events.
-- JaakobouChalk Talk 11:15, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is integral to the October 2000 events, and should be mentioned in that article. However, this is about Ben-Ami and his control over the police and their actions. пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(1) he failed controlling the riots. the death of a jewish israeli is just his fault as the death of 13 arabs. (please give a look to WP:NPOV)
(2) even assuming (and i disagree with this assumption) that he was disqualified only because of the arab-israeli casualties, the jewish death of october 2000 is still integral to the october events which are mentioned in the text of the article and i disagree with the censorship of this information and believe it is a violation of WP:NPOV.
-- JaakobouChalk Talk 11:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
p.s. apparently we're both "dug in" with our position. should i open an RfC on this? JaakobouChalk Talk 11:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Censorship? The Jewish death is mentioned in multiple articles where it is appropriate. The "control" of Arab rioting is clearly linked to the rubber bullet issue, not the results of the rioting, otherwise it would also mention the widespread Jewish rioting. As for having the cheek to suggest I check WP:NPOV, I'm lost for words. Feel free to open an RfC. пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

After a bit more consideration, I have reworded the article, moved the Or Commission paragraph to a more chronologically appropriate section of the article and included the Jewish death. Thoughts? пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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