Talk:Satoshi Nakamoto/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 September 2023

I propose adding the following reference: Hatch, Evan (7 May 2022) [21 February 2021]. "Len Sassaman and Satoshi". Medium. Retrieved 2023-09-18.

To this paragraph: "In 2021 developer Evan Hatch proposed cypherpunk Len Sassaman of COSIC as a possible candidate." Solomon Ucko (talk) 13:50, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done We are not using Medium as a source on cryptocurrency articles. We do already have a source for Sassaman, the very last sentence in the article (as the most recent claim). Jtbobwaysf (talk) 21:55, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

The reference that is there ("Is crypto expert Len Sassaman the creator of Bitcoin, Satoshi Nakamoto?". CNBCTV18.) doesn't actually support the paragraph. It says that "On February 21, a writer, Leung, published a comprehensive study that looks at the possibility of Sassaman being Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin." While this does explicitly equate Len Sassaman and Satoshi Nakamoto, it doesn't mention Evan Hatch; it says that some writer named Leung made that claim. The paragraph and the reference were added in the same edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=1085021312&oldid=1085019834&title=Satoshi_Nakamoto. Unless evidence is presented that Leung is Evan Hatch, the paragraph and/or the reference should be changed to match.

In contrast, the Medium article is a primary source for the paragraph, since it is written by "evanhatch.eth" (i.e. Evan Hatch), and, while it doesn't explicitly claim that Len Sassaman is Satoshi Nakamoto, it heavily hints at it by highlighting various similarities between them.

There is an much older claim of Satoshi being Len Sassaman at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144445.20;wap2 (domain name blacklisting reason is unrelated: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist/Archives/2016-02#bitcointalk.org; un-blacklisting was proposed and received no objections, but was abandoned: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist/Archives/2019-04#bitcointalk.org): in reply to a thread titled "I think Sirius (Martti Malmi) is Satoshi Nakamoto...", a user named "rpietila" says: "Quote from: Technomage on February 16, 2013, 02:03:28 PM [...] I entertain the idea that Len Sassaman with his wife is/was Satoshi, and that he was murdered by the CIA." There is even a secondary source for this: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/history-misidentifying-satoshi-nakamoto/.

Solomon Ucko (talk) 01:47, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

The dailydot looks like a nice source for more candidates as well. I have now added another sentence that refers to this source. Thank you! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 18:53, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Deleting DOB

It's absolute nonsense to place a date of birth on a pseudonym of an unknown person, even with the addition "claimed". It's not clear who's Satoshi in the end, so placing the DOB on prominent places like introduction and info box violates NPOV. Unfortunately, I'm restricted to edit the article. CryptoCrawler (talk) 23:56, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Satoshi's DOB is claimed and is WP:DUE. Do you have any evidence to state the date is in question? Jtbobwaysf (talk) 05:19, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

The genuine DOB is 12th March 1978. Banedroid knows everything you might want or need to know about the pseudonym 'Satoshi Nakamoto'.. Banedroid (talk) 21:31, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, it would be an abomination to delete this DOB, it is an important link between Hal and the real person behind the pseudonym.

It is all cryptographic. Banedroid (talk) 21:38, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

WP:NOTFORUM might apply to this discussion unless you have WP:RS you want to discuss. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 00:39, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

@CryptoCrawler this is a good point to start at. However, there is a huge importance to the date of birth. It is a key that has been explained on a different platform.

There is an obvious similarity to the date of birth of Satoshi and of Hal, when you consider that Am English and Br English represent month day and day month respectively, this a clue. If you switch the number 75 to 57, there is a difference of only 1 with regard to Hal's year of birth, that difference of 1 is important relative only to the true person behind Satoshi Nakamoto when considering the years of birth of the other chosen developers.

That is all I am permitted to say at this moment in time. DroidBane (talk) 15:13, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

All I needed to say I've said already: it's not clear who's Satoshi in the end. It could be Hal Finney, Adam Back, Nick Szabo, or it could be a pseudonym for a team of several devs. So giving the DOB is clearly wrong, purely speculative and misleading. Stating the DOB would require the real person to be known, but that's not the case. Totally wrong is also the POB given as "Japan", the person with the birth name "Satoshi Nakamoto" (Dorian), born in Japan, clearly denies having anything to do with Bitcoin, which is even referenced in the article. IDK what else to say about this. CryptoCrawler (talk) 07:21, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

@CryptoCrawler I fully understand where you are coming from, maybe it's time for the truth to be known. DroidBane (talk) 19:38, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Although, the date of birth as published back in 2012 was done so in such a way for a good reason. It is part of the legacy, and until the truth comes out, it should really remain as it is. DroidBane (talk) 19:41, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

►@ALL: This question has been discussed but I do not see a consensus. Let's try this: Here is the lead sentence: Satoshi Nakamoto (born 5 April 1975[citation needed]) is the name used by the presumed pseudonymous[1][2][3][4] person or persons who developed Bitcoin.

This sentence make sense, only if you remove the DOB.

1) By definition, the date of birth can not be known for an unknown identity.

2) The unique date of birth can not be stated for a group (persons) unless they all have the same birthdate.

Since there is no provided citation for the 5 April 1975 DOB for an anonymous person or persons, I'm removing it. The very least we can do as editor is make sure that sentences are not self-contradicting. If you want add it back, do it in the body of the article, where you can discuss this date versus others, and provide citations for each.  • Bobsd •  (talk) 06:05, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

@Bobsd citation would be P2P Foundation 🤷🏻‍♂️ DroidBane (talk) 06:47, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

@DroidBane I am assuming that you are referring to this citation: "Satoshi Nakamoto's Page". P2P Foundation. Archived from the original on 29 May 2012. Retrieved 2 May 2016.

1) That citation does not actually specify an April 5, 1975 date. 2) And if you roll through the captures at Internet Archive, you can see his age listed as 36 on April 3, and then as 37 on the next capture, April 10. So the most you could claim is a birthday sometime between April 4 and April 9. And that assumes that the java script on the P2P site is calculating the years correctly. ► But more importantly, we are supposed to rely on secondary sources, not a self-published post. I suggest you refer to WP:PST, WP:BURDEN, WP:SOURCE  • Bobsd •  (talk) 22:01, 25 October 2023 (UTC)