Talk:Progressive except Palestine

Best sources?

Lacking non-commentary sources with significant coverage, the current version of this article seems to lack strong RS footing. I looked for examples of non-commentary RS with more than passing mention this phrase's existence, but I have not succeeded. Are there sources I am missing, or am I undervaluing those currently in the article? Freelance-frank (talk) 11:54, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

The book Except for Palestine given as further reading uses the phrase in quotes without attribution "Against the backdrop of these realities, the American political left has normalized a world in which it is acceptable, through words and policies, to embrace the ethical and political contradiction of being "progressive except for Palestine"".

It is possible that rather than relying on the specific phrase, a title like the Palestine exception or some other descriptive title might work better, I will take a look a bit later when I get some time. Selfstudier (talk) 12:04, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

A different and more general article title would probably be more tractable. I think it would be hard to write an article on the current topic without a lot of inferences and OR. Maybe also worth looking for an article to merge this content into. Haven't found a good one yet. Freelance-frank (talk) 12:15, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

That book probably isn't a good source for the current version of this article. The Jacobin piece notes: "Discussion of why exactly that is, and the historical roots of 'progressive except for Palestine,' doesn’t feature prominently in the book." I was unable to find more than a passing mention of this topic. Freelance-frank (talk) 13:59, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Although the left/right thing also exists elsewhere, this seems a particularly American phenomenon, what about The American left and Palestine? Selfstudier (talk) 18:46, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

That could work! It's too bad that there's not a page included in Types of Zionism or Zionism#Types into which this kind of content could be merged as some sort of critique section, or I'd lean towards that instead (perhaps that's a point in the camp of those who endorse the PEP label). Freelance-frank (talk) 19:05, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@Bohemian Baltimore: Do you have a view on this? Selfstudier (talk) 09:40, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@Selfstudier I didn't imagine that this article would be interpreted as only inclusive of sources that used the exact word-for-word phrase "Progressive except Palestine". Any source discussing leftists being anti-Palestinian despite their leftism would fall under the same concept. There are sources that say "Palestinian exception" or "Progressive minus Palestine" or whatever, but it's all the same idea, and the most common way to describe it seems to be PEP. If this article were to be merged, the clear page for it would be Anti-Palestinianism. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 11:23, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I did wonder about that, under the US section. However, I think that this is not exactly anti-Palestinianism, it is a kind of bigotry but a feature of American left wing politics rather than an American viewpoint per se. A recent example being Price responding to a question about what exactly is the difference between Russian illegalities in Ukraine and Israeli illegalities in Palestine. I think if you change the title then there is a greater scope for including relevant material. Selfstudier (talk) 11:36, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

@Selfstudier Is it uniquely American though? It seems to be not uncommon among certain sections of the European left. I would say, particularly in France, Germany, and the UK among left Zionists. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 14:00, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it is necessarily only a Zionist support thing but in any case, we can widen the scope further still if you want ("progessive" is an American thing I think, this word is not usually used in other countries) with something like Palestine and left wing politics? I don't mind, it is just a question of the scope and assuming we have the requisite sourcing for that. Selfstudier (talk) 14:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)