Talk:Phagocyte/Archive 1

New section

It's better to use the "New Section" tab, (or the one marked +), at the top of the page, rather than clicking on Edit. This will produce a small box in which you can write the subject of your comments and a larger box for your comments. Unless the subject is the same, in which case click on the Edit at the top of the section and begin your comment with a *

• And then add your comments. Graham Colm ^Talk 21:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC) (and don't forget to sign)

Citation

1. http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/BUGL/immune.htm

2. http://nobelprize.org/educational_games/medicine/immunity/immune-detail.html

3. http://www.immunecentral.com/immune-system/iss10.cfm

4. http://www.dent.ucla.edu/pic/members/neutrophils/neutrophils.html

5. http://textbookofbacteriology.net/antiphago.html

6. http://www.medfriendly.com/neutrophil.html

7. http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/blood/blood.htm#5

8. http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookIMMUN.html

9. http://www.teaching.anhb.uwa.edu.au/mb140/CorePages/Connective/Connect.htm#labreticular

10. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/233/4760/215

11. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1453512

12. http://bme.virginia.edu/ley/leukocytes.htm

13. http://web2.airmail.net/uthman/blood_cells.html

14. http://www.ultranet.com/~jkimball/BiologyPages/B/Blood.html

15. http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/D/DCs.html

16. http://www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk/MBChB/2a.html

17. http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/cancer/review.php

18. Phagocytosis; University of Trieste publishes research in phagocytosis; Immunotherapy Weekly 10-17-2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eulemur2008 (talk • contribs) 14:09, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

19. http://www.rockefeller.edu/labheads/steinman/steinman-lab.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.77.214.68 (talk) 21:43, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

20.http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/hematology/HessEDD/BenignHematologicDisorders/normal-hematopoietic-cells/Dendritic-cell.cfm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.77.214.68 (talk) 21:46, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

21. http://www.ehponline.org/members/1994/Suppl-10/allen-full.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.77.214.68 (talk) 21:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

22. http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/content/full/112/4/935

For Evasion Section

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18607538?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eulemur2008 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19001420?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18573331?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eulemur2008 (talk • contribs) 17:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=eurekah.chapter.19451

5. http://textbookofbacteriology.net/antiphago.html

6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bookshelf/br.fcgi?book=infdis&part=A4&WebEnv=1r37igd0mpV96XbHo6LFGG6FhCUTyd9dCQ67EN2nuHAFp8wqffF0eOOlEPjaoTYyMPulSFqTSFv4ERZxb1vWnaNQl%402640013F92D83C30%5F0012SID&WebEnvRq=1#A4

For History of Phagocytosis

1. http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/1908/mechnikov-bio.html

2. http://nobelprize.org/educational_games/medicine/immunity/immune-pioneers.html

3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18463079

For Intracellular Killing

• Pubmed Nutriprive

16603587, 12527227, 18546145, 7762448

• Pubmed ROS

18511861, 14676270, 9022278, 9159214, 18574584, 9022278, 18449540, 17237347, 17050190, 18036868, 17956288, 17278388

• Pubmed Myeloperoxidase

10519157, 3055215

• http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/content/full/92/9/3007
• Pubmed Extracellular Killing

9355122

B-class now

As a member of WP:MED, I am promoting this article to B-class; well done. Graham Colm ^Talk 22:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Comments Merging these article makes sense. Most of the information in Phagocytosis is covered in Phagocyte and Phagocyte is currently being actively edited and is a Good Article nominee. Graham Colm ^Talk 20:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Merge. Phagocytosis is info poor and can easily be incorporated into Phagocyte. If someone wants to do a spinoff article in the future, there is no impediment. But as it stands now, Phagocytosis is useless. Cheers, Wassupwestcoast (talk) 20:50, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

For the most part I agree with the merge; I am just worried about the protist information in the phagocytosis article because it is not relevant to phagocyte (the leukocytes in the immune system, not all cells that use phagocytosis). Eulemur2008 (talk) 21:41, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, and I must echo Eulemur's concerns. Also I would like to suggest adding at least one of the beautifully descriptive movies (were removed from the phagocytosis article) illustrating phagocytosis to this article.--DO11.10 (talk) 22:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose. There are many cells that engage in phagocytosis other than phagocytes. --Arcadian (talk) 22:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this is a true. This is a very good point indeed; and a good reason why Phagocytosis should be expanded. Best to keep them separate it seems; I can envisage how they will eventually complement each other. Thanks. Graham Colm ^Talk 22:50, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

A comment on the videos and Wiki policy: see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Secifically, Mere collections of photographs or media files with no text to go with the articles are against policy. In the case of the Phagocytosis article, there was a gallery of videos with no explanatory text. Pictures, sound and video must illustrate a point made in the text. The text must dominate the encylopedia article. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 04:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I also think two separate articles are better, phagocytes are specialised cell types that have phagocytosis as their major function, but other cells use phagocytosis, such as many types of protozoa. These are two separate concepts. Tim Vickers (talk) 20:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm convinced. I will remove the merge templates tomorrow, unless there are any further comments to the contrary (I have written myself a note). Graham. Graham Colm ^Talk 23:05, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

GA pass

Congratulations to everyone who has worked on getting this article to GA, I've decided to pass it as I found only a few minor issues which I've fixed myself during the course of my review, which can be found here. I suggest someone goes through the article and continues linking to other articles as much as possible, especially in regards to complicated scientific terminology or names of compounds.

Kind regards,

—Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 00:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

My luck on logging on to wikipedia for the first time this break only to find your article making GA. Congratulations and well done. :-) Food_Puma 03:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Mast Cell

I will be adding this to the cell type section as soon as I get the chance. Unless there are major objections (if so feel free to add comments below). --Eulemur2008 (talk) 00:29, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• The follwoing pubmed citations talk about the ability of mast cells to participate in phagocytosis: 8568252,11292019,10719674. --Eulemur2008 (talk) 21:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

These will be useful; I will read them tomorrow. We need to decide whether mast cells are universally considered to be professionals. If we can find more than the one citation to support this, we can add them to them section. I have re-structured the article a little and I have drawn a little diagram today. Graham. Graham Colm ^Talk 21:41, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

More Pubmed Numbers: 11168574 --Eulemur2008 (talk) 13:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

• I am becoming more convinced that mast cell chould be added to professional phagocytes because both Ernst and Paoletti mention that they are professional and the four citations above talk about their ability to participate in phagocytosis. --Eulemur2008 (talk) 14:20, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Cell Types

I am considering changing the heading for cell types to professional phagocytes because there are non-professional phagocytes as well. In addition, is it important to at least mention the non-professional phagocytes? --Eulemur2008 (talk) 21:38, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the change I made is OK, and yes, non-professional cells deserve to be mentioned. Graham Colm ^Talk 21:43, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The lead section

This section needs to be expanded to three or four short paragraphs that summarize the important points in the article. A rule of thumb, (mine), is that each major heading should have a representative sentence or two in the lead. We could make this article fit for the Main Page with a few more hours of work over the next few months IMHO. Graham Colm ^Talk 21:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

• The third paragraph will be devoted to the avoidance of phagocytes by pathogens. --Eulemur2008 (talk) 23:38, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

More suggestions

Good work on the Lead. I have edited it a little and broken it into smaller paragraphs. It's in danger of getting a little too long now. The article needs a final section on phagocytes as a cause or complication of disease. Paoletti says There is growing evidence that phagocytes may not only be considered as friends but also as foes as they may be involved in the causation of a variety of conditions. <ref> gives a long list here! </ref> This was written in 1997, so it would be interesting to see what more recent studies have revealed. I can make a start on this section, unless you beat me to it, using a chapter in Paoletti called "Host tissue damage by phagocytes".

We also need two pretty Wiki tables. One called Professional Phagoctyes and one called Non-professional Phagocytes. The first table should list the main players and have a sub-section called "Variety of phenotypes". This section should have a list:

• Bone marrow: macrophages, monocytes, sinusoidal cells, lining cells
• Bone tissue: osteoclasts
• Gut and intestinal Peyer patches: macrophages
• Connective tissue: histiocytes, macrophages, monocytes
• Liver: Kupffler cells, monocytes
• Lung: self-replicating macrophages, monocytes mast cells
• Lymphoid tissue: free and fixed macrophages and monocytes
• Nervous tissue: microglial cells (CD4+)
• Spleen: free and fixed macrohpages, monocytes, sinusoidal cells
• Thymus: free and fixed macrophages and monocytes
• Skin: resident Langerhans cells, dendritic cells, conventional macrophages, mast cells

The second table needs to list:

• Lymphocytes
• NK and LGL cells
• Epithelial cells
• Endothelial cells
• Fibroblasts
• Erythrocytes

The reference for both tables is Paoletti p. 427

Graham. Graham Colm ^Talk 20:22, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Host damage

• here is a big one: septic shock (2-23)
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?highlight=tissue,phagocytes,host,damage&rid=imm.figgrp.158
• 16319683, 11373504, 12682440, 10430993, 8521027, 16183032, 9106073 (more on MS), 18662305 & 9562516 (more on rheumatoid) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eulemur2008 (talk • contribs) 22:20, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and the related articles look very useful. Graham. Graham Colm ^Talk 22:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

• Last one for tonight: