Talk:Ovda Airport

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Map[edit]

I made a map but I'm not at all sure that my list of destinations is accurate. I based it on flights that showed up on the official airport website, but that may be catching charter flights and might be missing regular but infrequent or seasonal service. Also I'm not sure the destinations listed in the article are right, from the official site it looked like all flights from Haifa went to Eilat Airport, not here. If there's anyone with some local knowledge that can help put together an accurate list of destinations please do so. Kmusser 16:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since when did Uvda become an international airport?? I thought it was an air force base. --Gilabrand 12:06, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian civilian airplane incident[edit]

An Iranian civilian plane landed in Ovda sometime around 2002, stranded passengers then flew to Iran. There was some political hum about this. Anyone care to add info on this? elpincha (talk) 14:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

source? Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:18, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move (Uvda or Ovda?)[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 17:35, 16 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ovda Airport → Uvda Airport – Requesting renaming per WP:ON:
Article infobox picture shows that the airport is titled "Eilat Uvda Ariport" and the name in Hebrew transliterates as Nemal HaTe'ufa Uvda. Relisted. BDD (talk) 19:31, 9 October 2013 (UTC) Teyandee (talk) 22:37, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • WP:ON is generally a reason to avoid an official name, not to rename to match it. Can you demonstrate that your proposed title meets WP:COMMONNAME? This is the more important determinant. --BDD (talk) 19:23, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The common transliteration of the airport is Ovda, and this is the reason the airport ID is LLOV. Since 'o' and 'u' map to the same letter in Hebrew signage, different transliterations do occur. BACbKA (talk) 17:06, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Should be easy to determine, since it seems to be a common noun in Hebrew meaning "fact". Anyone?
There is an Uvda Valley with important archaeological findings (Leopard Temple etc.), an airport serving Eilat, and an operation at the close of the 1947-49 war, all named after the valley, or after the Hebrew word for "fact", or both, plus a popular Israeli TV programme by this name. So plenty of reason to sort this out - and sources to draw on.
Once this has been done, please extend the result to all pages containing the word:
Uvda (Israel), Operation Uvda, and Ovda Airport.
The latter might prove the most problematic, since even the int'l ICAO abbreviation contains an "O": LLOV. Still, not a problem to mention this in the airport article: due to common usage, the airport is called Ovda, in spite of the valley it is called after and the Hebrew word the valley itself was named for, being uvda. Easy.
Thanks, Arminden (talk) 09:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 09:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Seasonal flights to Ovda[edit]

I've added some more info about seasonal flights to Ovda. This information is based on the flight schedule on Ovda airport's official website (retrieved April 2014). The user 93.172.87.56 keep reverting my edits, although based on the official source of information for the airport. Again, those are not regular flights but flights organized from time to time. If anyone has any objection posting those facts - which airlines fly to Ovda and from which destination - even if those are not regular flights (and stating that clearly) - please post your arguments as to 'why not' here and do not revert unilaterally --VICTOR (talk) 22:51, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is Paris really that well served?[edit]

I don't believe the airline and destinations section is correct. I don't believe that that many non french airlines serve Paris. Also the CDG page does not agree with it either. Monarch, for example, do fly to ovda but not from Paris! Could someone correct please?

Apparantly so. However, those are only seasonal flights, not regular. There is quite a large Jewish community in Paris and entire France, many members of which come to Israel regularly for the Jewish holidays. Eilat is one of the preferred destinations, that's why many airlines organise flights during Jewish holiday periods. Monarch had a few flights last month (April 2014) on the route CDG-VDA, and earlier this year as well. The flight information was extracted from Ovda's official website --VICTOR (talk) 22:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Airport name is Uvda not Ovda[edit]

see official airport page at http://www.iaa.gov.il/en-us/airports/ovda/pages/default.aspx --Rzg (talk) 19:17, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it seems it's wikipedia's fault. I happen to work with a person involved in the movement to change the error IRL, but it seems to me that the error originiates from the wiki article, which in turn got to google knowledge base, to the point where in google maps it ovda. And I assume the iaa just fell in line with the internet. You work at a place that makes that website, and you google for the name, and it corrects you... do you tell it it's wrong, or think that maybe you are wrong? for the current isreali government, it seems to be nothing out of the ordinary, so... TL;DR - It's wikipedia's fault. Or the person who first changed it to Ovda. Also, the person in the discussion about moving this to "uvda" who said you might pronounce ovde and ucda the same... yeah no that won't happen to any hebrew speaker. --Benderbr (talk) 22:24, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The strongest arguments in terms of Wikipedia policy were in favour of retaining the current title. In particular, Number57's analysis of the common name in English language reliable sources was not refuted. Wikipedia:Correct might be a useful essay to read for those in favour of the move. I note also that there was clear canvassing of one of the support votes. Jenks24 (talk) 11:51, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Ovda Airport → Uvda Airport – Requesting renaming per WP:ON:
Article infobox picture shows that the airport is titled "Eilat Uvda Ariport" and the name in Hebrew transliterates as Nemal HaTe'ufa Uvda. This text was written in the previous move request, and is still relevant. I would go ahead and just move it, as Uvda is a fact (some pun intended). It's not open to debate - it's a fact that the name עובדה can't be translated to ovda. It's different sound and meaning - ovda doesn't really have a meaning, though it is one letter short for the hebrew word for "loss". Anyhow, Avshalom Kor asked the government to stop using the wrong "OVDA": https://www.facebook.com/avshalomkor/videos/1274818839273342/ So I would appreciate if no one opposed to moving it to Uvda Airport and changing all the wrong Ovda in the article itself. More than that, to me it seems like the mistake in the article was copied into real life, and wikipedia basically "made up" the facts. Somewhat Alarming IMO. --Benderbr (talk) 17:39, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Are you suggesting this is a case of citogenesis? (Also, what is the source for Uvda Airport being the common English name? We don't move articles just because their official names changed.)  ONR  (talk)  09:05, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • The thing is, the name never changed. It was always named after the Hebrew word for fact, "Uvda" starting with a military operation... Named Operation Uvda. I google it, and added filters. This error goes back 10 years at least. It's common. To many people, who might have visited the airport dozens of times, it was and always will be "Ovda". The fact of the matter, Ovda doesn't mean anything. The name of the Place is Uvda Airport. Ovda is gibberish. I suspect it might be a case of citogenesis, but it's also just as likely a common mistake no one understand (those who speak english at least). What I assume, is some time it infected wikipedia. New sign was made for the airport, and that mistake was copied into real life. And now you can say there was a place known as Ovda, as indeed IRL there are ads for Ovda Airport. But they're wrong to begin with. If denying climate change would become common as there is 10 times more opposition than support - would wikipedia delete the climate change article? I kinda doubt it. --Benderbr (talk) 01:38, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Even Israeli sources commonly refer to the airport as Ovda rather than Uvda (see table below based on Google hits on media websites for the respective names). Number 57 12:58, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Newspaper Ovda Uvda
Haaretz 79 26
Israel National News 131 21
Jerusalem Post 32 16
Times of Israel 45 5
Ynetnews 24 2
Total 311 70
  • Support It is referred that way because the wikipedia mistake was copied into official channels. I'm Israeli, I speak Hebrew. Uvda is the name of the place, It's a simple error, no need to stick to wrong information just because it was echoes IRL. Wikipedia is for facts not speculations, and Uvda is the word for fact, no Ovda or Oovda. Uvda. Here is picture of the old terminal: https://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/32094944.jpg We don't need to wait for the entire thing to officially change, like they did in the iaa website: http://www.iaa.gov.il/en-US/airports/ovda/Pages/AbouttheAirport.aspx you can see they changed the content, but the website structure still has "ovda". The simple fact, is that the place is called "fact", and fact has one hebrew translation, which is UVDA. There can be no debate on the basic fact of how to word fact is translated. fact is עובדה, and עו is the sound U makes. I'm not giving my personal opinion - I'm telling you the facts. Ovda just doesn't mean עובדה or fact. It's a made up word, which is just a common mispronunciation. You want wikipedia to stay wrong, because some parts of reality followed it's example/made the same simple error? AFAIK, wikipedia is supposed to be factual, not popular. You can state in the article of the common mistake - but the name in hebrew, is pronounced and spelled עובדה, which is "fact". --Benderbr (talk) 17:17, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • We know you support it, you started this RM. The fact that you're Israeli doesn't mean you're right here (and is also a WP:OWNish argument); the writers of all the above media websites will also be Israeli. Number 57 17:41, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • support. I could not agree more. As a hebrew speaker and an Israeli I have never heard any one refer to the airport or to the nearby vally as OVDA (a word which has absoloutly NO meaning in hebrew whatsoever), but always as UVDA ("fact" in hebrew ) (עובדה). The mistaken spelling by Israel sources in this matter is just a mistake caused by the tendancy of so many nowdays to cut and paste without checking , hence replicating errors such as this. It should also be pointed out that the Avshalom Kor, mentioned earlier by benderber is (in case you did not know) one if the more famous hebrew language linguists and semantics experts. His opinion on this subject, as well as the fact that the airports name on its official page is UVDA and not OVDA, should in my opinion be enough--rzg (talk) 19:50, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Worth noting this !vote is the result of a blatant violation of WP:CANVASS by the move requester, so should probably disregarded. Furthermore, the idea that writers at Haaretz and the Jerusalem Post are checking Wikipedia on how to spell the airport's name is quite bizarre. Number 57 20:18, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • yeah well I can see how last time this was brought up nothing was done. The editor I pinged has voiced his opinion on the subject in this talk page, so I thought he might be interested about this move request, as he obviously didn't know about it being an option - same as me not knowing it's not ok to ping people who obviously showed interest in the matter. It's just something wrong, my knowing hebrew and living israel doesn't give me another vote, but I think it gives my opinion on the subject some validity. I wasn't bold and just moved it, not to mention someone creatad Uvda Airport which is just redirection here. People on the above video wrote that the wikipedia article might be the source of the mistake, and though I can't prove it, it's definitely a likely contributer for the error being wide spread - it is written in the wikipedia after all. The article is filled with this contradiction, and I think the Israel official version, which has a meaning and purpose - Israel's first prime minister, named the place "fact" as it was a fact that this place existed in the Negev.

Wikipedia works with sources, citations and all that - do you have any source for the word "ovda" having any meaning? You realize this is you arguing with a native speaker about a word meaning? Don't you find it little bit absurd? Something something "post-fact" world? And this is literaly trying the change the sound and meaning of the word fact... --Benderbr (talk) 01:21, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've cited the five main Israeli English-language media organisations above. And we're not arguing about meaning, we're arguing about a transliteration, of which there are often differing versions (e.g. Chaim vs Haim). Number 57 11:57, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose move. Any claim that Israeli sources are copying from Wikipedia needs to be backed up with evidence. Because the name Ovda is so prevalent in these sources, it's exceedingly unlikely that Wikipedia is itself the source for the name; consequently, we should locate the article at the common name, which is Ovda Airport.  ONR  (talk)  18:25, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, it was wrong on my behalf to claim that. I have no source for that. It's a speculation. But I can see it's very common on google - still, the fact the the error became prevalent, doesn't change the basic fact - that this ovda word is meaningless. It's like Shouldof vs Should've. One is simply wrong, and no matter how I insist I know it as Shouldof and always have knew it like that, will change the fact that Should've is the proper form. Same way with Ovda and Uvda. One is just factually wrong. --Benderbr (talk) 01:21, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • The fact remains - the airport's name is UVDA not OVDA.Its not the same as "chaim" vs "haim" where both ch and h can replace the hebrew letter ח and would be pronounced almost exactly the same - it is the distinctly different pronounciation of U vs O and the meaningless OVDA vs the very meaningfull name of UVDA (which as i previously mentioned is also the official name listed on the airports website)-rzg (talk) 18:01, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support this is a case of a transliteration error being used in newssources because that is what was most common. However, the correct name is Uvda and that is what should be used. If you go to the Uvda airport site, while the URL contains ovda for technical reasons, the content itself refers to the airport as Uvda. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:15, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Offering a comment as someone with the following bona fides: I have worked as an editor at both Haaretz and Reuters (Tel Aviv bureau), and I have a child who was stationed at this base for two years. I make this latter point because--as an editor--I was keenly sensitive to the fact that various nearby road signs offered Ovda, Uvda and Ovdah as the name. At both Haaretz and Reuters, absent any officially agreed-upon spelling, the practice was to defer to the most recent usage on file, or a quick survey of maximum of three native Hebrew speakers in close proximity. Admittedly, not scientific, but it was nonetheless consistent. Disclaimer: I am not a native Hebrew speakers. As for using Wikipedia as a source, I've now checked with editors at Times of Israel, Bloomberg (Tel Aviv) and Haaretz, and each said it would not be their first choice but would use in the absence of alternative. Finally, I point out that the English-language page on the Israel Air Force website describing the base muddles the matter further, spelling the name "Ouvda". [1]--Miltonpincus (talk) 11:35, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

References

  1. ^ http://www.iaf.org.il/2570-30206-en/IAF.aspx

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Requested move 1 July 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Move proposer has not provided a policy based rationale for the move. There is no clear consensus for an alternate title either, so the status quo remains. (closed by non-admin page mover) Steven Crossin 17:33, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Ovda Airport → Ovda Airbase – No longer a civilian airport Flayer (talk) 15:59, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so we don't know what the sources will call it in the future. The main airport page still calls it an airport. But this request opens up a can of worms. It is true that the common name Ovda originates from Uvda (Israel), which got its name from Operation Uvda, so the facility should likewise be referred to as Uvda... something. If the airstrip has really seen it's last international passenger, then no harm would come now to revert to the correct, if slightly more obscure, transliteration. Havradim (talk) 15:21, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – It is not clear how "No longer a civilian airport" is a rationale for this move. Dicklyon (talk) 05:05, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3 September 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. This is the second RM in quick succession on the same proposal. If it is ever introduced again, it must be with solid evidence of sourcing showing that WP:NAMECHANGES applies  — Amakuru (talk) 14:29, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Ovda Airport → Ovda Airbase – Ovda Airport has ceased operations as a civilian airport and is now fully a military airbase. The prior RM discussion was closed with one oppose as a CRYSTALBALL rationale which no longer applies, since Eilat is now served by Ramon Airport and Ovda Airport is no longer on the IAA's website of airports. This was then moved to Ovda Airbase as it should have been but then moved back when someone looked at the RM discussion from July and applied a July consensus to a month's later on the ground status. As of now, Ovda Airport doesn't exist, what does exist is Ovda Airbase and it should never have been re-moved back to Ovda Airport. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:03, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. Contentious page move was initiated without seeking consensus, along with the rationale "No Airport anymore, just an Air Base", which smacks of original research. No source-based arguments are being presented as before; the Ovda airport page still calls it an airport. Havradim (talk) 14:39, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Havradim, that's an old page, the main airports page does not have Ovda listed. Airports in Israel Sir Joseph (talk) 18:02, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, a page that is presently still up by definition cannot be called old. Secondly, being listed or not is irrelevant to Ovda's current definition as an airport, which the site linked to clearly still uses. Havradim (talk) 21:45, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Havradim, not at all. Firstly those pages aren't updated as you can see from the dates, "to be completed in 2017." Secondly, it says Ramon Airport is being built to consolidate Eilat and Uvda Airport operations, so not sure why that means that Uvda is still in operation. Uvda no longer has any civilian flights and is just an airbase now. Sir Joseph (talk) 23:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This current page of Ramon Airport states that it opened in January 2019. It further elaborates that it has replaced the two existing airports in Eilat, Eilat City Airport and Ovda Airport... We can infer from this that flight operations from these two airports will be transferred to Ramon, but we cannot conclude that all commercial flights have totally ceased from them, and especially not that from now on only military flights worthy of an air base have remained. In fact, this new source calls Ovda an airport and not an air base, even repeating the phrase Ovda Airport three times. If sources for a change to an air base exist, they need to be presented forthwith before any changes can be made. Havradim (talk) 06:41, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The above discussion seems to miss the point repeatedly (but hopefully not deliberately). We go by sources. The nomination is devoid of them. The oppose !vote above gives valid sources. If more recent sources use the proposed new name then we would go with these according to wp:NAMECHANGES, but none have been given, just more OR. Andrewa (talk) 23:55, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

IATA code still in use?[edit]

Is the IATA code VDA still assigned to this airport? If yes, I think it could be mentioned with a single (sourced) sentence somewhere in the article, if not, I think we should follow precedent for places like Berlin Tegel Airport (which remains in limited military use as a helicopter base) and strike through the IATA code. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:16, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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