Talk:Neve Shalom, Tel Aviv

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On 15 November 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Neve Shalom (neighborhood) to Neve Shalom, Tel Aviv. The result of the discussion was moved.

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Achva (neighborhood) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:50, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Yemenite neighbourhood" = "Kerem HaTeimanim"?[edit]

I have brought over this photo from the art. page. If "Yemenite neighbourhood" is supposed to mean "Kerem HaTeimanim", then that's a different neighbourhood from Neve Shalom and belongs on that page, not this. Or are there good reasons to include/merge that quarter into this? The borders between "project", "neighbourhood", and "quarter can be fluid, of course. Arminden (talk) 00:10, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's even worse than that: Google Translate & Steve Morse are offering for the original Hebrew caption
"Emek Hefer - Yemenite neighborhood ("Shkhunot Teimanim"), Neve Shalom"

Emek Hefer is totally elsewhere, and the landscape & settlement type may well be from the Hefer Valley (see Hefer Valley Regional Council). Names have changed since 1935 and "Neve Shalom" is like "Peaceville", so the fact that nowadays there's no settlement by either name there (Shkhunot Teimanim or Neve Shalom) means nothing, this can be the "Yemenite houses" of a 1935 "Peaceville" of Emek Valley. Arminden (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Arminden: That certainly doesn't look like an urban neighbourhood, even in the outskirts. I have a conjecture. Rachel Sharaby wrote several articles about a place called Ravid settled by Yemenites during the mandate. Frustratingly she never gives a precise location, but it must have been in or near the Hefer Valley since many of her primary sources are in the Emek Hefer Regional Council Archive. (Ravid is too far away and too recent.) I'll keep trying to identify it, but meanwhile removing the image from this article is good. Zero^talk 06:46, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Now I remember: Ravid is not a real place name but a made-up name to preserve the privacy of the residents and that is also why she gives the location only vaguely. But we can solve it. In a different article of Sharaby she names three Yemenite settlements she has studied and one is in the Hefer: Elyashiv. The year of establishment also matches and so do many of the archival references. So Ravid=Elyashiv. Zero^talk 07:35, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Great. However, why I'm not sure either: I looked up what "hefer/hepher" means as a noun. I found either digging/digger, or well/stream. Maybe it was just another a dell between dunes north of Jaffa called for a while Digger's or Stream Valley... Look for comparison for instance at this early photo of what's now a busy Tel Aviv city junction. On the photo we're talking about there might be the Med we see behind those dunes, and then it might again indeed be Jaffa/Tel Aviv - or not, as the Hefer Valley does also have a few villages on the shore. Few of those early settlements looked truly urban at first. And then again, the houses from the old photos from the Wiki pages about Emek V. Council do look very similar - concrete cubes with two windows on one side. Guessing and logic only gets you that far here. Arminden (talk) 10:49, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think that type of analysis based on the meanings of names is invalid. Anyway, there is a better argument. I located Neve Shalom on detailed maps of the 1930s (the photo is supposed to date from May 1937) and it was built-up already by 1930. Back-to-back buildings, not scattered houses. Moreover, the densely built-up Manshiya neighborhood was between Neve Shalom and the sea so the photo definitely does not show Neve Shalom with the sea in the background. Zero^talk 12:56, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As for "Neve Shalom" in the image caption, there is a notice in the Palestine Gazette of 1944 of something called the Neveh Shalom Extension in the Emeq Hepher Town Planning Area. I don't know what that is, or exactly where it is, but now everything points to the photo being in Emek Hefer and nothing points to it being in Jaffa-TelAviv. Zero^talk 13:33, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]