Talk:Neptune's Navy

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Citations[edit]

Responding to this edit summary, according to WP:LEDE, the lede is "is the section before the table of contents and first heading". This is the only place where citations don't have to be provided. Where a request for a citation is made within the body of the article, citations hshould be provided or the content should be removed. I originally made this request for citations because I couldn't find a reference justifying the claims. Editors shouldn't have to search through articles, reference by reference, to find support for claims made where a citation is not provided. Wikipedia:Verifiability is clear on this:

Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations, and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed.

I have challenged the information and there for a citation is required! Since the citation needed tag keeps getting removed,[1][2][3] and since I can't find confirmation of the claims within references within the article, I'm removing the claim. --AussieLegend (talk) 05:03, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For those who might stumble upon this: Above editor complained that a two-line section, which SUMMARISED a section directly beneath it (which was extensively referenced) needed references. I reverted the cite request, made the summary more NPOV, and placed a hidden "references below" tag on it. As seen above, editor comes back, screams vandalism on my talk page. I have now provided the references. Exactly the same ones which were already provided directly below where they have now been duplicated. The first half of the sentence is now referenced by four references showing that Sea Shepherd flew different flags! The second half of the sentence is now supported by several refs that show that Sea Shepherd had their vessels deregistered, because governments weren't happy with how these ships were used. The second reference in fact talks about how they had issues with SIX different countries in registration. What more do you want? How could you not find it if you claim to have read them. Sorry if I sound a bit angry- but I don't like to be accused of vandalism over something like this. Ingolfson (talk) 05:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That was silly. Copy and pasting the ref names in seems to fix it (I was actually doing it and had an edit conflict!). Are we good now? If not, consider rewording it instead of blanking it.Cptnono (talk) 05:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I already reworded it once - it used to say "that the vessels are either engaged in inappropriate or illegal activities" once, and the editor did have a bit of a point there, because there was no explicit talk of illegal activities. So I changed it to inappropriate activities, and at least two govs in the references note that the registrations were withdrawn because of that. As for me, I'm good with or without the references, but this was SO unnecessary, especially as the issue could have been (if necessary) been solved by simply copying the refs upwards as I finally did. Ingolfson (talk) 05:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The point you seem to be missing is the line that I quoted from Wikipedia:Verifiability. If an editor challenges a claim then a citation has to be provided. Removal of the {{citation needed}} with a note to look elsewhere[4] is insufficient. I acted in good faith by not warning you earlier and the warning that you finally received was a standard template (Template:Uw-tdel3) that did not accuse you of vandalism but instead warned you that "continuing to remove maintenance templates from pages on Wikipedia without resolving the problem that the template refers to may be considered vandalism." Note that "may be considered" is not the same as "you have committed". You've over-reacted on this.
You might also care to note that I never challenged the claim that the SSCS has flown under several flags. The request for citations specifically stated "reason="several governments"...."illegal activities"".[5] The challenge was clearly to the second part of the sentence and not the first. --AussieLegend (talk) 05:52, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Government officials from Japan, Iceland, Norway, USSR, and Canada have all expressed that they have broken the law. The Belize deregistration has a quote that at a minimum expressed displeasure over their actions. The Dutch have warned them as well. Do you have a proposal for alternative wording that doesn't say "illegal"?Cptnono (talk) 06:03, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
AussieLegend, could you please check the edit history and note that my edit which you reacted to with a vandalism warning DID NOT talk about illegal activities anymore - I had removed that wording in an earlier response to YOUR cite request, trying to make it more NPOV and more closely fitting with the existing references. However, in doing this revert, you also returned it to the version talking about "illegal". Cptnono - the "illegal" isn't necessary. As I said in the previous sentence re AussieLegend, I am perfectly happy with keeping an "inappropriate" only. Ingolfson (talk) 06:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sweet. The article no longer says "illegal" which I didn't notice. "Inappropriate" seems like a good summary. Are we all good now?Cptnono (talk) 06:39, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion reigns[edit]

I was trying to add a list of their former ships, with a view to later maybe fleshing them out with text. However their habit of renaming them and contradictions have me confused. In Sea Shepherd Conservation Society operations#Spain_and_Portugal-area_whaling_.281979-1980.29 it say the Sea Shepherd was scuttled. Yet in RV_Farley_Mowat, its is unreferenced claimed that she was previously called Sea Shepherd. Ingolfson (talk) 08:24, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I compiled a list. It is in the archives of the SSCS page. I'll try to find it.Cptnono (talk) 08:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
( / = rename):

Westella (at purchase) / Sea Shepherd

Sea Shepherd II

Bold Venture (turned over without action)

Gratitude (at purchase) / Divine Wind

Edward Abbey

Sirenian / Yoshka (now operated by locals?)

Thomas Carleton (at purchase) / Cleveland Amory

Whales Forever

Skandi Ocean (at purchase) / Sea Shepherd III

Ocean Warrior / Farley Mowat

Westra (at purchase) / Robert Hunter / Steve Irwin

Earthrace (at purchase) / Ady Gil

Cptnono (talk) 09:19, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very good, especially for searching for refs for all that we name. I think in the list here, we should only name their names while under SSCS operation. Other names before or after should only be in any sub-articles for the ships themselves. Ingolfson (talk) 09:22, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Where's the submarine that they painted to look like a whale to confuse tribal whalers but sold because they could never get it to work on that list? That one was my favorite. --68.41.80.161 (talk) 01:12, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It was small and never operational so it might not deserve more than a mention with the smaller vessels. A source should be available in the Ops article in the section discussing the Makaw.Cptnono (talk) 01:19, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Centralized discussion[edit]

@ Talk:Ocean 7 Adventurer#Sea shepherd's new interceptor vessal Cptnono (talk) 23:11, 25 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified (February 2018)[edit]

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Aircraft section[edit]

It would be useful to explain whether the helicopters are owned by Sea Shepherd of they have been leased or borrowed, etc. They are expensive vehicles and are extremely expensive to maintain, surpassing their original purchase cost. Rowan Forest (talk) 13:24, 20 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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