Talk:Murrumbidgee River/Archive 1
Big water[edit]
Murrumbidgee doesnt mean "big water". What is your source for that claim? Someone once said a lot of water came down that channel once when describing it, but that doesnt mean that is what the word means. The word was first written by Europeans as 'morrom.beeja' anyway. So, to find out what that word means you need to access a credible Aboriginal language file that will give u that meaning, maybe.
A language file may give you the meaning of the word 'beeja' which is akin to 'boss' but perhaps not for 'morrom' as understanding of that word is restricted. The word is a generic one though also. The Swan River could be a morrum.beeja.
The Indigenous people didnt really name most rivers what it is claimed by Europeans they were named. Each bend in the streams had a different name depending on its features. Along came the Europeans and the first name they heard for a particular aspect of whatever stream they were near, usually ended up as the Indigneous name that was recorded for the entire length of the channel.
The upper Murrumbidgee was NOT discovered in 1823. It was discovered 1000s years ago by Aboriginal people. Can you not write articles up that delete the many 1000s of years of occupation of this nation by Aboriginal people as though their existence is not worth noting on wikipedia. You need to ask the ANU archs what the date of first recorded occupation along that area was then cite that rather than the 1823 Euro stuff. I think Wendy Beck at UNE put out a paper on Aboriginal ovens along there so she would have some idea.
Australia's story DID NOT commence with the arrival of the Europeans. Far from it.
What is your reference?
- I located the text 'The Murrumbidgee River which runs through the City also derived its name from the aboriginal language and means "plenty water" or "big water' easily enough at http://www.wagga.nsw.gov.au/index.aspx?item=home&sub=aboutww&sub2=history -- Longhair 07:59, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
That came from someone asking someone here locally what it meant and they waved their arms around "as if to indicate big water". That Indigneous person DID NOT say it meant that. The non Indigenous person who recorded that arm waving just thought that is what the arm waving meant.
I get moorum.beeja off the original ethnoloygy (Mathews) and from traditional local Indigenous knowledge via NP re one part of the word that hasnt been lost. You can have 'big water' if u want. Can you put a reference up that verifies that meaning though please. Not a quote from a book that says "Murrumbidgee means big water" but a reference that says more than just saying. This bit is archaeology. In this area, people keep copying stuff into local history books that isnt correct, then others quote it. They work on the rule that near enough is good enough, plus giving people any answer will do as if they dont know stuff they wouldnt know the porkies fed them are incorrect? Thats fine but I dont work on that basis as its just creating a comic book history re this area from 1700 onwards. I'd rather a more correct version as I believe we have an obligation to those born in 2220 to collect and record that correct stuff so those coming along behind us dont get fed comic book history.
All rivers have big water especially if they are rivers that have very big floods, so it means totally nil. The river doesnt have those floods these days and hasnt had one since 1993 and that was a below the dam walls one and wasnt that large. We could put semaphore meanings here too eh if here is about recording what arm waving means??? Etymology is usually taken from more credible sources than arm waving though. Whatever, the main page is garbled with stuff in ref that should not be there so am going to try fix it.
I tried to fix it but its still stuffed up. Before I tried to fix it my for the old river bit appeared ok down the bottom but took script re Currie with it so I tried to put that Currie script back as I didnt put that about Currie discovering the river here, but didnt try to delete it as it sounds good. Page seems not big enough???I dont know.
Murrumbidgee means 'track goes down here', 'a very good place' or 'big water'. (McCarthy; 1963). From Geographical Names Board of NSW: GEOGRAPHICAL NAMES REGISTER EXTRACT Available [online]http://www.gnb.nsw.gov.au/name_search/extract?id=ujjLjzxOIt
We are thus both right re the meaning but that big water meaning came from that arm waving thing so I dont take any notice of it. The Aboriginal people were trying to warn my lot to not camp on the river flats because of the big water (arm waving here to try and get them to understand re floods) that happens and killed at least 89 out of 200 people in 1852. 'Track goes down there is the same as boss track. Moorum means track. beeja means boss. Boss track. Main track. Main fault line. (Rivers form within fault lines many times. I live directly above it - the Ancrestral channel before he changed course - so know it.)
Format troubles[edit]
Its broke. I'll just stop putting references, thats easy. I will note it has a reference but that wik can't handle references so I havet wasted my time trying to post it. Sound good? An 'admin' probably stole the ref thing and put it in their bag tools as their daily task. Dayum!
Its the front page needs IT (references, new page length, half the posts resoted), longhair, not out here in the back room.
Comments about recent edits (12 July 2006)[edit]
UNSOURCED COMMENT ABOUT SAILING???? That is about using commonsense. Sturt raised the blue ensign on the Darling on this trip then fled under sail. He raised that blue ensign to declare soverignity along the Darling and had to flee as there was stuf f happening there where he was. Now, if he had a flag and a sail in his kitbag do you really think he would have rowed against the current upstream that massive distance, and made it in the time he did on his return trip when the previling wind was easterly??? I SUGGEST U REMOVE THE COMMENT THAT HE ROWED. They may have used the oars for manouvering or when the wind dropped but generally, they'd have been under sail coming back upstream. The sides of the Murrumbidgee channel dont hold a strong current though the middle bits do.
Distance in miles: very handy as anything to do with most of those names such as the paddlewheel records etc and wool barges, will also be in miles. Easy to convert though and I was going to. No one else down this way has that distance list that I know so its not easy to come by. Its very handy to leave in miles as from it anyone can work out just where Charles Sturt went to and when on his 1830 trip down then back along, the Murrumbidgee. Note here: for part of that journey he didnt go along what we call the murrumbidgee today. Heaps imges of whale boats (all with sails) online. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.128 (talk • contribs) .
Response to anon from Gundagai's sailing and measurement comments[edit]
- Ifr you want to include something, cite reliable sources. Please review one of the very few policies on Wikipedia: Wikipedia:Citing sources. It says "This means that any material that is challenged and has no source may be removed by any editor". With reference to the miles - if you can't be bothered to convert, nor necessarily can anyone else. When, and if you convert, please feel free to reinstate.--A Y Arktos\talk 20:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Me converting the miles to kms invloves getting a battery for my calculator. I couldnt do that at 11pm. I have a copy of those miles and dont need the kms. If anyone else wants them, they can now convert them from the edit history and post them and I wont worry about going to buy a cal battery this week. I dont care if this stuff is here or not really. I was putting it up for anyone else who may want it. I do my own research from original sources so do not rely on others research to find stuff. I do think it handy though if I post stuff that it be correct and able to be cited professionally. I am not into comic book stuff. Your aggro attitude is resulting in stuff not being here big time.
My 'commonsense' and how I process the obvious, is highly credible. If yours isnt and u want to imagine that Sturt rowed back upstream the whole way, so be it. I cannot get inside your head and rewire it so it works better. Have you ever rowed a boat, in particular on the Murrumbidgee. Its great going downstream. Its OK using the oars to get back to the bank by cutting through the main current midstream. Around here, those who fish all have outboards or get someone to collect them with a ute, the other end. I have also worked as boat crew so do have some idea what they require for sustained use
In this unsourced stuff u keep doing, you are sourcing stuff u think out of your own imagination, then discrediting anything else that is more rational. Its you, not any 'policies' as such. You are not an archaeologist so are not qualifed to do that. Even if you are an arch, u are not qualifed to do that re content you do not know. Is your degree an actual history/heritage/cultural heritage/australian studies/oz lit etc one? Is it a science or IT. You know, I would have known in y.4 at primary school if someone said to me "that fella rowed for over 1000 miles upstream in the 'bidgee" in a very short time, that it was nonsense. By y.4 I had rowed and learned to swim in that river.
Do you know Indigenous studies stuff? Sturt went downstream as the whale (in his whaleboat) and came back with the winds. its seasonal. You could maybe accept this in Yolgnu country as its still traditional, but are too urbanised in your head to accept it for urban western nsw. You have even detached the fisher king (Sturt) from his fish (ponde) so cant even role play. You caused Sturt to drown at Gundagai as he couldnt swim. SSSHhhheeeeeshHH! No one, and I mean NO ONE has de-boated the fisher king before. Percival will NOT be pleased. Sturt went to the depths below so had no need to sail or row anywhere. I guess the boat, (the whale or cod or fish) had nous though so raised its own sail as it returned back upstream. That is what the clouds are.
Sleep dead, who died at Gundagai! Upon that dreadful heavy night, What then avail'd the piercing cry, Which rose above the water's might! Ah what avail'd thee> thine the fate, By flat seale'd - he will'd they doom, In joy, in youth, in health elate, Unwarne'd - ye met a watery tomb.
Thetis wrote that. Check her out.
You are a nineteen counties colonisation fan but dont acknowledge the wastelands. The Wastelands were a very important area. Westmooreland - you know.
YOU KEEP CARRYING ON ABOUT REFERENCES BUT CHARLES STURTS JOURNAL IS THE REFERENCE YET YOU CHOOSE TO CHANGE THE MEANING OF CHARLES STURTS JOURNAL. READ THE DARLING RIVER BIT. YOU ARE DOING ORIGINAL RESEARCH HERE AND CHANGING MEANING. CHARLES STURT NEVER SAID ONCE THAT PONDEBADGERY WAS THE ORIGINAL NAME FOR GUNDAGAI. HE SAID THAT IT IS WHAT THE NATIVES CALLED IT. THE INDIGENOUS MEANING OF SOMETHING IS VERY DIFFERENT TO WHAT ONE WORD MEANS. DIFFERENT TOPICS. BECAUSE U WANT TO CLAIM TO BE THE FIRST RECORDER OF THE ORGINAL NAME FOR GUNDAGAI YOU WANT TO CARRY ON WITH THAT. Sturt never recroded it as the original. I WILL JUST LET YOU GO AS ARCHAEOLOGY WILL JUST LAUGH AT YOU RE THAT AS IT HAS NO BASIS IN TRUTH. STOP POSTING ORIGINAL AND VERY INCORRECT RESEARCH ON THE ARTICLE PAGE ARTKOS. I WILL USE WHAT IS HERE FOR SOME UNI STUFF TO SHOW HOW Cultural heritage STUFF GETS ALTERED.
- You can just use google! 670 miles to km. -- RobertM 05:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Edit reversion of 13/7[edit]
I have reverted this edit as it inserted comentary into the article. Discussion happens on talk pages. As has been explained before: to insert references, use ref tags - ie open note with <ref> and close it with </ref>. If the article has not already got a references section set up, the editor needs to insert the heading and code to show footnotes. Use the following:
== References ==
{{subst:footnotes}}
If an editor can't be bothered to format corectly, other editors may not be bothered to do the formatting for that person and may clean up the article by reverting additions.--A Y Arktos\talk 21:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Wik would probably be better served if other editors left my contributions alone as they mess them up, interfere when stuff isnt finished and then a row breaks out, plus have no real idea of the context of stuff being posted. I cannot dumb down to the level of some other poke ins here so that will not be my loss. Its like playschool stuff here a lot of the time and it neednt be.
- Don't remove requests for citations, provide sources. Edits removing requests will be rolled back--A Y Arktos\talk 08:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
'Murrumbidgee' has a more precise meaning and Arktos knows that and it was put on the article page here with its official Australian definition, referenced. Why is this sloppty represention of Australia's story being encouraged here by admins?
Request for Arbitration[edit]
I have requested arbitration at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#A Y Arktos v. 203.54.*.*--A Y Arktos\talk 07:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Discovery / exploration[edit]
- The upper Murrumbidgee was discovered in 1823 by a party of settlers led by Mark Currie, but the extent of the river was not realised until 1829, when Charles Sturt and his party rowed down the length of the river from Narrandera to the Murray, and then down the Murray to the sea. They also rowed back up, against the current.
I agree with the other editor (who refuses to sign comments) - this should be stated as European discovery. Some mention of pre-european habitation should be made. It is mentioned that the name is derived from the Wriadjuri language, why not mention that it formed a part of their nomadic or permenant territory (whichever it happened to be)?