Talk:Michal

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Untitled[edit]

Having no access to a Bible here, to what extent is the Paltiel story literal. There are obvious problems with the story vis a vis the Torah ban on a man remarrying his divorcee after she has been married to someone else. JFW | T@lk 15:21, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And David sent messengers to Ishbosheth, Saul's son, saying, 'Deliver me my wife Michal, which I espoused to me for an hundred foreskins of the Philistines.'

And Ishbosheth sent, and took her from her husband, even from Phaltiel the son of Laish.

And her husband went with her along weeping behind her to Bahurim. Then said Abner unto him, 'Go, return.' and he returned.

II Samuel 3:14-16, King James Version.

I added a reference to Deut and then found your question. I treat the story as literal even though it shows David broke the Torah's command. 82.18.174.37 00:15, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The traditional rabbinical answer is that Michal never engaged in conjugal relations with Phaltiel, and that the children ascribed to their relationship were adopted, not biological (No children are mentioned in the Bible for this relationship). On the surface, though, we may suggest that King Saul forced Michal to marry Phaltiel, so that she was anussa (acting under compulsion) and thus not culpable for her actions. Another possibility, suggested by some modern scholars, is that King Saul retroactively annulled David's marriage to Michal, making the Deutoronomic injunction irrelevant to this case.

It gets even more interesting since in Samuel 2 Michal married another man: Adriel the son of Barzillai. So, how many husbands did she have and which story is accurate? Well, since we are talking about biblical times then she probably married only one man: Adriel the son of Barzillai and not David or Paltiel. I explained the historical background in the Talk section of "King David's wives". You can also read this article.Did Michal have any children or not?--Violet24 (talk) 11:34, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Poem[edit]

Have placed poem and second version of same here in case someone wants to place it in wikisource.

"Michal"

“And Michal, Saul’s daughter, loved David

And she despised him in her heart”

Michal, distant sister, time’s thread has not been severed,

time’s thorns in your sad vineyard have not prevailed.

Still in my ear I hear the tinkling of your gold anklet,

the stripes in your silk garment have not paled.

Often I have seen you standing by your small window

pride and tenderness mingling in your eyes.

Like you I am sad, O Michal, distant sister, and like you doomed to

love a man whom I despise.

Or alternatively translated:

"Michal"

Though years divide, we’re sisters yet;

Your vineyard stands though weeds invade;

Still tinkle anklet, amulet;

Your red silk garment does not fade.

By a small window still you stand,

Proud but a death within your eyes.

My sister, I can understand –

Who also love whom I despise.

1927, Israel

Translated by Robert Friend

Mannanan51 (talk) 03:56, 15 April 2016 (UT

Was she married to David or Adriel?[edit]

Many English bibles changed the text because of this confusion. But this is the correct translation to this phrase. (from the Hebrew bible.) Shmuel 2:8

"The king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Ayah, whom she bore to Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she bore to Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite."

Because Michal couldn't have been both the childless wife of David and the wife of Adriel and a mother of 5 sons, some English bibles changed her name to Merav. Or they wrote that she took care of the 5 boys. But the correct translation (from the Hebrew bible) is that she bore (gave birth) to these boys. There are many contradictions in the biblical narrative of book Samuel 1 vs Samuel 2. I think that we should include here both narratives.--Jane955 (talk) 14:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

To handle this kind of discrepency, what is needed is a secondary source that discusses the difficulty in the received hebrew text and how translators have handled that. You cannot do that as you suggest above. The authorities in WP are reliable, secondary sources. Jytdog (talk) 01:16, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog It is very simple. The Hebrew text and this English translation (I added a link) says it like it is. The religious community however chooses to ignore these uncomfortable facts and chose the more interesting (although less believable) narrative. By deleting the part in Shmuel 2 where Michal is a mother to 5 boys, you are basically going along with the religious narrative.--Jane955 (talk) 04:58, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your perspective, but as a WP editor you cannot write content about various translations based on your own authority. Jytdog (talk) 05:01, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This text is in English and it also happens to be the correct translation to the Hebrew bible. You can use an online translator to see what the Hebrew text says. I welcome people with more authority (who speak Hebrew) to look into this.--Jane955 (talk) 00:58, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Read WP:OR. I understand perfectly what you are saying and what is going on with the hebrew. that is not the point. Jytdog (talk) 01:49, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Mijal? Are you sure?[edit]

This page claims that the name is spelled “Mijal” in Spanish. I understand that “j” in Spanish has a similar pronunciation to “ch” in a Slavic language or כ in Hebrew. But I have never seen the name “Mijal”. Miguel and Micaela, yes. Not sure about this one. Birdplane (talk) 02:13, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]