Talk:Megan Fox/Archive 3

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Mass deletions

As noted on Hillbillyholiday's talk page, I would rather discuss what should or should not be deleted instead of have an editor unilaterally delete what he or she doesn't like and then edit war with that editor or report the matter at WP:ANI.

When it comes to this edit, I agree that some of it needs to be trimmed. But when it comes to stuff like Fox being a sex symbol or compared to Angelina Jolie, those are significant aspects of Fox's public image. Hillbillyholiday kept those, but removed the bit about Fox's public image coming under scrutiny when, on September 11, 2009, an unsigned letter from three crew members of Transformers defended Michael Bay against accusations made by Fox about his on-set behavior, including a comparison with Hitler. This bit is also significant to her public image because of how she was perceived after comparing Bay to Hitler and after the letter; it was significant enough for Bay and Anthony Steinhart to comment on the matter of her behavior and public persona. So, yes, it belongs in the Public image section.

When it comes to Fox's beliefs and issues, Fox has repeatedly stated that she has a distrust of men, that despite the public perceiving her as a "wild and crazy sexpot," she is antisocial and has only been sexually intimate with two men her entire life – "My childhood sweetheart and Brian.", that "My biggest regret is that I've assisted the media in making me into a cartoon character. I don't regret what has happened to me, but I regret the way I have dealt with it.", and that she is bisexual and believes "all humans are born with the ability to be attracted to both sexes." Yet Hillbillyholiday cut all of this and decided to keep the brachydactyly stuff, which is an issue rather than a belief and, as far as I'm aware, is not something she has acknowledged having. And Hillbillyholiday kept the "obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD), insecurities, self-harming, and has acknowledged that she has low self-esteem" material and the Christian faith material. I would rather the "Beliefs and issues" content that Hillbillyholiday cut be trimmed instead. I'll go ahead and attempt trimming the material.

I also see that ‎FlightTime has been reverting Hillbillyholiday. So, FlightTime, any thoughts? Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

@Flyer22 Reborn: I agree with you about community input and if Hillbillyholiday is coming out of retirement to continue with this type of editing maybe an ANI discussion is warranted, however I just started a ANI thread on another issue, so I'll leave that up to you. - FlightTime (open channel) 02:15, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Regarding the "Beliefs and issues" section, I significantly trimmed the material. Followup edit here. What's left is the following:

  • A brief mention of her general distrust of men.
  • That she is antisocial and has only been sexually intimate with two men (and can't have sex with someone she doesn't love).
  • That she is bisexual; brief commentary on her beliefs and behavior regarding bisexuality.
  • Her brachydactyly and other issues, and Christian faith.
All of that is relevant to the section in question, and it's only three short paragraphs.

When it comes to the "Public image" section, I noted why the Hitler/letter content should stay. Hillbillyholiday had also removed the tattoo paragraph. I feel that the tattoo paragraph should stay, since, like Jolie, tattoos are a significant aspect of Fox's image. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:35, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

What, the Anthony Steinhart? Crikey. If you feel it's that important, then go ahead and re-add the letter stuff. But where are the proper secondary sources, the in-depth independent biography that could put all this stuff in context and give a bit of perspective? Is there even a need for a "public image" section at all? Can't the extraordinary life of Megan Fox be summarized without one? Please keep trimming away the excess fluff though, Flyer, I wanted to leave something for others to do. --Hillbillyholiday (talk) 02:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Hillbillyholiday, you know very well that academic sources often do not cover these celebrities, especially in an in-depth way. Most of these articles are built on media sources. There are enough secondary sources covering the fuss over Fox calling Bay "Hitler," being fired for it, and the letter. As for the Public image section, celebrities, as you well know, are usually concerned with their public images. How general society and/or the media perceives a public figure is significant and should be covered in the subject's Wikipedia article if a number of reliable sources cover it. As for your mass deletions in general, I will reply on your talk page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:47, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Update: I reorganized the public image and media exposure material by cutting more things, adding Fox's statements on matters and social commentary on these aspects. This included a few academic sources. So, surprisingly, there were some for Fox. The latest edit can be seen here. Followup edits here and here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:45, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

RE: Names and birthdates of public figures' children

There was an RfC about this specifically two years ago at Talk:Brian Austin Green#RfC: Names and DOB's of children in a BLP, where the closing consensus reads, "The policy on biographies of living persons clearly leaves the inclusion of details of family members up to the discretion of the article's editors, as long as the information is well-sourced. All editors seem to agree that there are reliable sources, and the overwhelming majority of editors favor keeping full names and dates of birth of the children in the article." This has generally meant that if the parents or their representatives announce it to the media themselves, or there are incontrovertible sources such as an RS citing a birth certificate, that this is allowable as pertinent biographical data.

In this case, there have been no such name or birth-date details given by the parents, reps or public records for the third child. The parents may offer these later, but as far as I know they have not as of today.--Tenebrae (talk) 22:42, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2017

Megan Fox was born in Rockwood, TN not Oak Ridge, TN

[1] Gpcoupe (talk) 01:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ www.imdb.com/name/nm1083271/bio
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. IMDB is not a reliable source for BLP articles - FlightTime (open channel) 01:35, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2017

In the Megan Fox#Beliefs and issues section the link on "antisocial" should be changed from "Anti-social behaviour" to "Asocial." The Anti-social behaviour article deals with concepts related to bad behavior and psychopathy/sociopathy, etc. If you read the paragraph it's clear she obviously didn't mean that; context matters. She meant she is not a sociable, outgoing person. 2606:6000:FD0A:FB00:1D7B:9DBC:AB17:A412 (talk) 11:31, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:13, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
Eggishorn, it appears that the IP was looking at an older version of the article. For example, there is no "Beliefs and issues" subheading anymore, and I'd already recently changed the internal link to "asociality." But I'd left "antisocial" as the text because that's what Fox states. So I'm not sure about this edit, which changes the text to match the internal link. Also, since it's really not up to us to guess what a public figure meant, I pondered whether I should even change the internal link. But I felt that keeping the internal link as "anti-social behavior" when she likely did not mean that is more of a risk than having the link be "asociality." But then again, the Anti-social behavior article notes that "asocial" is usually what is meant when people state "antisocial." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:00, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
@Flyer22 Reborn:, I agree with all that you said but I felt that the edit was still justified. From context, as you say, Fox was clearly using the colloquial meaning of antisocial and not the DSM personality disorder meaning. Since the earlier text wasn't in quotes, it didn't seem necessary to maintain the exact wording. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:06, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
Eggishorn, yeah, better to err on the side of caution in this case. As indicated by my above comment, I think it's safer to go with "asocial," even though the Anti-social behavior article notes the confusion between the terms and states "Many people also label behaviour which is deemed contrary to prevailing norms for social conduct as anti-social behaviour." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:11, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

List of awards and nominations received by Megan Fox article?

Greenock125, regarding this, I don't see that the List of awards and nominations received by Megan Fox article is needed. We can see here that section was not big at all. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:23, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

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Megan's married name

Megan's married name is Megan Denise Green, as proven in Whitepages.[1] --2600:1700:5290:2EB0:C96C:A1A:9F4F:2671 (talk) 16:11, 7 August 2019 (UTC)Malik2600:1700:5290:2EB0:C96C:A1A:9F4F:2671 (talk) 16:11, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Person report summary for Megan Denise Green". whitepages.com. Whitepages.
Not a reliable source, that is just an aggregator not saying where they got the information. Geraldo Perez (talk) 04:58, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
And Ashley Tisdale's married name is French. That doesn't mean anything when her stage name is still her most prominent name. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 06:23, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
That's what I thought also at first, but it's actually a reliable source. I searched for other celebrities on that website like Beyoncé, Solange & Ciara and they were accurate about their full names & relatives, along with age. Malik 08:54, 17 August 2019 (PTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5290:2EB0:2871:E9C4:B311:E241 (talk)
It is not a reliable source. They are an aggregator getting info from many different places. Some is correct, some wrong, depending on the source they use. They don't do any fact checking on their own. If you want more discussion about this, bring it up at at WP:RSN. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:13, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Cherokee

It doesn't sound so obviously hyperbolical, but I'm still sceptical whether she's doing something similar to what Johnny Depp did. Still, is it worth adding as, unlike Depp, she seems definite? --Kailash29792 (talk) 05:20, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

She claims it but offers no proof or explanation. Her belief may be based on "family lore" similar to Elizabeth Warren's belief, and not factual. It seems Cherokee is the most common tribe claimed, strange that few people claim ancestry from other Indigenous American nations. If added to the article, and I don't think we should, it needs to be clear this is her belief in her ancestry and not a statement of proven fact unless she or some other reliable source offers objective proof. An identified ancestor who was or could be an acknowledged member of one of the Cherokee#Modern Cherokee tribes would be adequate proof of the claim just as we like to see identified ancestors as proof of any other ancestry claim. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
So she's basically pulling off a Johnny Depp. Alright I won't add this info, but Category:American people who self-identify as being of Native American descent shouldn't be added either, right? --Kailash29792 (talk) 16:14, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
We can't add a category unless support for the category is in the article per WP:CATVER. I personally wouldn't add it to the article as I think these claims are dubious and mostly self-serving, but I wouldn't object if someone else adds it as long as it is worded as a claim, not a statement of fact. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:26, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Sex symbol

Muboshgu, regarding this, like I stated in the edit summary, I reverted you because there is no evidence that this has changed, and it's a significant aspect of what she is known for, as made clear by the article. As you know, the lead is meant to summarize the article.

We could state that she was a sex symbol in the late 2000s, but this would imply that she's no longer one. In 2011, as seen by this "21st-Century Hollywood: Movies in the Era of Transformation" source, from Rutgers University Press, page 159, which is used in the article, she was still considered one. And this 2019 "Megan Fox Is Back—in Black" Vogue source says, "Her subsequent films cemented her status as a sex symbol, and yet Fox continuously sought to move beyond that label."

Pinging AngusWOOF and Geraldo Perez, who watch this article, for their thoughts. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:53, 18 September 2019 (UTC) Updated post. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:57, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Pinging Tenebrae as well. Also watches the article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 05:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

It's referenced. Assertion it is no longer valid is a personal opinion and even then it should be rephrased if no longer true and sourced as such. Geraldo Perez (talk) 05:11, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
Despite whatever misgivings I might have whether "sex symbol" is encyclopedic or not, historically once a sex symbol, always a sex symbol. Raquel Welsh and Marilyn Monroe are considered sex symbols, though one is a senior and the other is dead. It'd be odd to suggest that Raquel Welsh is no longer a sex symbol but that she will be again after she dies.--Tenebrae (talk) 16:54, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

The article has a whole section on her public image which uses "sex symbol" multiple times, so I think it would be appropriate to retain in the lead. Whether the wording should be "is", "has been", or "was" is up to you; no idea if it has to be everlasting like a Marilyn Monroe or Raquel Welch. People still regard Jennifer Aniston as a sex symbol. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:50, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2020

In the sentence "temporarily standing in for Zooey Deschanel whom was on maternity leave": Please change "whom" to "who". Fr3shdumbl3dore (talk) 12:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

done -Roxy the elfin dog . wooF 14:57, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:BLPNAMES again

Archer1234, regarding this, see what Tenebrae stated on the matter: Talk:Megan Fox/Archive 3#RE: Names and birthdates of public figures' children. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:39, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Policy does not state a blanket prohibition and it allows names "if reliably sourced, subject to editorial discretion that such information is relevant to a reader's complete understanding of the subject" — for which a consensus was reached in an RfC here regarding Fox and Brian Austin Green. I am restoring RfC consensus. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:25, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
True, but is the suggested edit noteworthy and of encyclopedic in value for the article or outline some point in the article, beyond general gossip value?71.254.208.174 (talk) 04:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2020

In the leading section, her role in New Girl was Reagan Lucas not Regan Lucas. 220.78.248.185 (talk) 04:20, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done - hako9 (talk) 12:02, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.252.68.178 (talk) 16:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2021

Please add two more spouses Asher Adams and Machine gun kelly. Thank you Buttholemcsqueezy (talk) 07:34, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 07:47, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2021

Megan Fox's mother Gloria Darlene (née Cisson) is half Filipina. Allisonyc (talk) 20:08, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

We would need a source for that, as well as consensus that including half of her mother's ethnic background was germane to the article. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:30, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2021

change "She is considered a sex symbol, and is recognized for her public image and looks." to "She is an American Actress, producer and considered to be a cultural icon." she is known for so much more than just her looks and this is a cruel way to portray her for people wanting information on her. 99.20.89.120 (talk) 13:29, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: the statement is supported by WP:RS of BBC News Run n Fly (talk) 16:07, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 June 2021

I wish for the line “Megan fox is considered a sex symbol” to be removed because it is highly offence of the reader and Megan fox herself, I am sure she does not view herself as a sex symbol and it is utterly disgusting that anyone would write this about someone. I am disappointed in who ever wrote this article and I wish it to be removed. Soopoohiw (talk) 09:47, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry if being called a sex symbol is offensive to you. To others it's actually considered complimentary and is applied to both men and women. There are plenty of sources like this one that verify Fox's status as a sex symbol, so removing that claim would appear to be against Wikipedia policy. Thank you very much for your input! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 16:55, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
(edit conflict)  Not done You might want to read Megan_Fox#Public_image. Multiple reliable sources discuss Fox's status as a sex symbol, and she has openly discussed her own perspective regarding that role. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 16:58, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Outrageous misandrist post

Under personal life, it is stated that Megan consider men are so dirty that she would never sleep with a woman who had slept with a man. If the genders were reversed this would have been removed a long time ago; but it seems hate is not okay unless it's towards men. 2001:D08:C2:A2E4:44E:F69D:83F5:F9B4 (talk) 06:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

She said it. It’s sourced. Wikipedia isn’t a social commentary. If the gender roles were reversed it might be removed but it the removal should be challenged if the original entry is actually a quote directly stated by the article’s subject, and is properly sourced. Stop looking for controversy that isn’t there. 73.69.251.97 (talk) 02:42, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
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