Talk:Mediatrix

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Reparatrix[edit]

There is another interesting marian title called reparatrix, which refers to Mary's supposed liturgical role. [1] ADM (talk) 14:46, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reparatrix means Mary made reparation for Eve's sin. Oct13 (talk) 22:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Without Question?[edit]

The opening of the article states that "That Mary is Mediatrix of graces at a level higher than the mediation of other saints is accepted without question in the Catholic Church".. is this true? I am Catholic and I believe it, but the Church has not declared it dogma, so would it not be open to question then? Either way, I don't think that statement is worded well. --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 00:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the wording is too strong and it is not a dogma - yet. I have to look up the details again, else if you know the details, please fix. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 01:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is a dogma. Here's the proof:
Lumen Gentum - By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*)
FOOTNOTE (16) Cfr. Leo XIII, Litt. Encycl. Adiutricem populi, 5 sept. 1895: ASS 15 (1895-96), p. 303. - S. Pius X, Litt. Encycl. Ad diem illum, 2 febr. 1904: Acta, I, p. 154- Denz. 1978 a (3370) . Pius XI, Litt. Encycl. Miserentissimus, 8 maii 1928: AAS 20 (1928) p. 178. Pius XII, Nuntius Radioph., 13 maii 1946: AAS 38 (1946) p. 266.
"Denz." is abbreviation for Denzinger-Schönmetzer, Enchiridion Symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de rebus fidei et morum
Enhiridon Symbolorum
The Blessed Virgin Mary, Mediatrix of Graces *
[From the Encyclical, "Ad diem," February 2, 1904]
1978a As the result of this participation between Mary and Christ in the sorrows and the will, she deserved most worthily to be made the restorer of the lost world," * and so the dispenser of all the gifts which Jesus procured for us by His death and blood. . . . Since she excels all in sanctity, and by her union with Christ and by her adoption by Christ for the work of man's salvation, she merited for us de congruo, as they say, what Christ merited de condigno, and is the first minister of the graces to be bestowed.
Oct13 (talk) 01:12, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, it is not a dogma yet. Please see refs 20 ans 21 in the article and Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici the "petition" that many people are signing to convince the pope to declare it a dogma. Long after all that 500 bishops sent this letter to ask for a dogma. JP-II did not agree. And Benedict has not accepted yet. History2007 (talk) 01:57, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was defined by the Pope and by Second Vatican Council and is a part of the Church's index of Catholic dogma. What you are referring to - the petition - is different: What some Catholics want is the dogma of "Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate", not the dogma of Mediatrix. Oct13 (talk) 02:06, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dogmas do not get defined that way in encyclicals - there are hoops to jump through for the pope. Please read the letter, they want both coredemp and mediatrix.

We thereby submit this votum accompanied by one possible formulation of the Marian doctrine which we, please God, pray may be solemnly defined by your Holiness:
Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of man, gave to humanity from the Cross his mother Mary to be the spiritual Mother of all peoples, the Co-redemptrix, who under and with her Son cooperated in the Redemption of all people; the Mediatrix of all graces, who as Mother brings us the gifts of eternal life; and the Advocate, who presents our prayers to her Son.

And many books published long after that encyclical do not list it as a dogma. I am sure. History2007 (talk) 02:14, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry but if the Mediatrix is included in the official index of Catholic dogma, which the Enhiridon Symbolorum is, than it is dogma. Oct13

Moreover, the Second Vatican Council defined Mary as Mediatrix in the dogmatic constitution. So the matter is closed. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:19, 16 April 2012 (UTC).[reply]

On the other talk page I bet you $1 two two one it is not. Take it? History2007 (talk) 02:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take that bet. But more importantly, what other article's talk page? Oct13 (talk) 02:24, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Popes and saints have taught that Mary is mediatrix of all graces, but no ex cathedra declaration has been issued. Her immaculate conception and her assumption were for centuries taught authoritatively and even celebrated by official liturgical feasts, but were not defined as dogmas for all faithful Catholics to believe until quite recently. The teaching of her position as universal mediatrix of all graces is at present in a situation similar to that in which those two teachings were then. Esoglou (talk) 20:20, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Esoglou's statement. In fact in Miravalle's book he reviews all the papal statements in various encyclicals and shows how they built up to the petition currently pending, but not approved. By the way, if this is agreed ot here (and I saw that Esoglou edited the article) it will also affect the discussion on 4 vs 5 dogmas on the page on Roman Catholic Mariology. At the moment the article says there are 5 dogmas - counting mediatrix as 5th. That also needs to be clarified. History2007 (talk) 21:53, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Medjugorje[edit]

Unnecessary section. Hundreds of Marian apparitions and other private revelations refer to Mary as the Mediatrix and mention her share in Christ's meditation. To name but a few: Fr. Gobbi's alleged locutions, the private revelations in the "Secret of the Rosary" book, and of course the Lady of all Nations apparitions.

Check out Portal:Private revelation to learn more. Oct13 (talk) 22:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do not even remember where that came from with the multi-lingual text and all. I agree with the deletion. History2007 (talk) 23:11, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Puppet edits[edit]

Esoglou the HeartyBowl1989 edits seem to have made a mess of things, as usual. The account and its other reincarnation as Tomlin... have now been blocked again. But this article is getting death by a thousand edits now as these puppets leave a series of train wrecks. I have not even checked what has happened. Could you perhaps revert to one of your own versions from a month ago, and then re-add anything new that is essential? That may be the only way to recover. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 13:14, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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