Talk:Mangalore/Archive 4

Deletion request

I request deletion of the following two statements 1. Reference to the attacks on Christian centers of worship from the history section. This event mentioned is very insignificant to be mentioned in history of Mangalore city. 2. A reference to the proposal to change the name of Mangalore to Mangaluru. 117.227.113.68 (talk) 18:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

You have not provided any reason as to how the church attacks or the name change proposal are insignificant. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 14:50, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I have already mentioned the reasons for the deletion. Please contest it in the edit page with reasons rather than simply locking the article without any discussion.

Anyway below are the detailed reasons for the deletion request.

1. Church attacks :

a. The mentioned event has not in anyway drastically or noticeably altered the course of Mangalore's history . (Please note that the history section is a brief summary of Mangalore's history and not a detailed one) Hence only major events need to be mentioned.

b. There have been other communal events in Mangalore's history where lives have been lost. No lives lost in the said church attacks. Hence mentioning it is undue.

• But many churches and convents were attacked and vandalized in a spontaneous wave in a space of nearly three hours. The attacks also continued the following few days, and in early October. Furthermore, it was the first and only incidence of large-scale attacks occurring on Christians in Karnataka, and Mangalore was the focal point of the attacks. In a small city like Mangalore with a significant Christian population of almost 10% (more than most Indian cities), it is definitely a major event. The event highlighted existing tensions between Hindus and Christians in Southern Karnataka, and also attracted a significant amount of media coverage. So, how does mentioning it here violate WP:UNDUE exactly? As for loss of lives in other communal riots in Mangalore, the only communal riots which occurred there were the Hindu–Muslim riots in October 2006, and no lives were lost then. The only loss of life related to the attacks was that of Bajrang Dal leader Sukhananda Shetty who was murdered by Mulki Rafique in November of that year, a month after the riots had died down. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 15:21, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the loss of life, the October 2006 claimed 2 lives as far as I know, Don;t really know whether this Sukhananda Shetty incident is related to the riot which preceded it (?). Purely a underworld Killing I think. Other riots in recent past is the Dec 98-Jan99 riots that claimed 7 or 9 lives. I don't remember the exact number. Not mentioning the riots of Dec 92. There is also tension between Hindus and Muslims as well. So do we need to mention the events of Dec 98-Jan99 and Oct 2006?. By your logic its a YES. Again, it is the impact a event has had on Mangaloreans as a whole which needs to be mentioned (History Section) and if Church attacks are mentioned then the above said riots also need to be mentioned. 117.226.246.124 (talk) 15:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

I concur! You have a point there. I was only aware of the 2006 riots, and unaware of the preceding ones. I never imagined that similar riots in Mangalore before that. So thanks for correcting me on that, and for for informing me about these events which until now i was unaware of! For clarification, the 2006 riots casualties were 2 dead, 16 seriously injured, 20 damaged houses, and a four day curfew. I am not very familiar with the Shetty murder, but i have read somewhere that it had something to do with the riots. I will search for reliable sources about all the communal riots and mention it in the article. I will most likely get to it on Sunday. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 16:38, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

2. Name change :

The name change thing is just a proposal by politicians/state Govt. which is not yet approved by the central Govt. Mentioning a proposal looks un-encyclopedic. 117.226.223.67 (talk) 13:02, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

• Kindly cite a Wikipedia policy against such facts being mentioned in any geographical article. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 15:21, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

There is no reason why well sourced info should be removed from the article. Yes the rename is a proposal, the article does not state that it is already renamed or is in the process. The church attacks have significant coverage across several media. So there is no reason why this needs to be removed. You were given sufficient warnings, but failed to stop for which the article is protected. — Abhishek  ^Talk 14:49, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

My edit was reverted the first time I made it. Then after that (on 6th Jan) i gave the reasons for my edits and asked for discussion. There was no response to it. Only when there was no response till the 12 of Jan, I re-edited the article and straight away my edit were reverted and the article was protected. This seems a little unfair. Please do not say I was given sufficient warnings. Further more you people were not even willing to discuss. 117.226.246.124 (talk) 15:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

So far, i have been unable to find sources for riots which apparently occurred before 2006. Would you please be of assistance by finding a single reliable source for the Dec 98-Jan 99 riots as well as the 1992 one? Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 17:11, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

The question is not about finding a reliable online source of the mentioned events, but the question is whether the mentioned events need to be mentioned in the history section or not. Any person who has lived in Mangalore and knows about Mangalore will not ask for a reliable online source to confirm that these events really happened in Mangalore. Sure Joyson, I will definitely try finding some online source as and when I find time. Now whats your take? Do we need to include the October 2006 events in the history section as well? 117.227.149.7 (talk) 14:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I only lived in Mangalore during my college years (2007–2010). Local politics never interested me, both then and now. LOL. So, hopefully that excuses my ignorance. I need reliable online sources to source the info in the article, not to verify for myself whether they actually occurred. Since these notable events lack articles of their own, it would be safer to do so. I have been unable to find any so far, which is why i requested you. The communal problems in our city obviously deserve mention in the History section of this article. Mangalore has received a bad reputation as a communally volatile city, because of it. I think that the 1992 riots, Dec 98 – Jan 99 riots, 2006 riots, 2008 anti-Christian attacks, and 2009 Mangalore pub attack all deserve mention. I will scout for sources myself, after the blackout ends. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 15:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Though riot has taken place in Mangalore (which is unfortunate), saying Mangalore is a communally volatile city is not correct. These kind of phrases are coined by politicians for their own gains and let us not get carried away by their propaganda and brand our city as communally volatile. There are other cities where riots in a larger scale have taken place and there is no mentioned to it in their wiki page. So mentioning about the riots and other attackes is not needed. 117.227.71.66 (talk) 04:47, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

The 1992 riots, Dec 98 – Jan 99 riots, 2006 riots, 2008 anti-Christian attacks, and 2009 Mangalore pub attack were not just random occurrences which generally happen in most cities as well. These incidents were sufficient in scale, media coverage, and impact to warrant mention here. I will mention that there have been communal problems in the city, and not specifically state that Mangalore is a communally volatile city. As it is unsourced, stating that would be original research on my part. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 05:56, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with 117.226.223.67. Eg in the Bangalore article there is no mention of any of the riots that have taken there in the past. Hindu-Muslim, Rajkumar kidnap, Rajkumar death, Vishnuvardhan death, and so on. Nothing at all on the Ahmedabad page except for the post partition 1947 and the Godhra riots. The post Godhra riots closed the place for a couple of months, and people are still in camps. Till recently riots used to breakout there frequently. Compared to that riots in Mangalore have been far and in between. So mentioning only one of them while ignoring the rest doesn't make any sense. Either mention all of the riots that have taken place in Mangalore or none at all.--PremKudva^Talk 11:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree as well! I didn't add the info. Somebody else did! However, i will mention all the events in the particular section. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 12:40, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

There is absolutely no need to mention about any communal flare ups in the history section of Mangalore wiki page, as these events are just a small blip in the long history of Mangalore. If you feel that it is really necessary then it can be done in the 'History of Mangalore' page or a new page with a suitable name can be created but not in the main article.117.227.132.86 (talk) 14:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

By that logic, couldn't we state the same for Godhra and Ahmedabad then? Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 17:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately Godhra was not a small blip at all, from wiki page it says "...in which 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus were killed and 223 more people were reported missing. 523 places of worship were damaged: 298 dargahs, 205 mosques, 17 temples, and 3 churches." Meanwhile regarding violence in Mangalore I remember as a kid college students going on a rampage for whatever reason it is that provoked them, violence and subsequent shut down after the Babri Masjid violence and so on. If it is felt that Mangalore is a communally sensitive place which flares up in flames every now and then these entries will be required under a separate para. Otherwise that entry need be deleted.--PremKudva^Talk 05:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I second your comments Premkudva. The reference to the said incident should be deleted.117.226.220.28 (talk) 14

59, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

That was in the entire Gujarat, not just Godhra! Mangalore is a communally sensitive place where these incidences flare up again and again. It's obvious. How many more incidences do we need? Anyway, i will just state that the city has had a history of communal problems and mention these notable instances. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 20:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Mangalore being cosmopolitan is far less sensitive than many other smaller places around. In fact of the church attacks, many were outside of Mangalore ie Udupi district and Chikkamagaluru district. However the infamy hung on Mangalore as if Mangaloreans are big haters of the church. My observations is a small bunch of people up to no good come and do this to provoke such an incident. The fact that such incidents are so far and in between actually proves that Mangalore is a far more tolerable place than many others I know that flare up and the drop of a communal hat. If Mangaloreans were really so insensitive then they would have stopped intermingling with each other, buying renting houses in neighbourhoods other than where their community lives. Even the pub attack was actually a private personal attack that went wrong. If someone has the newspaper of that day you will notice another attack on a house where two middle aged married guys were having an adulterous affair. Apparently these were the original targets, except they weren't in the pub that day as expected. Seeing the girls seated there the Sene fools attacked them instead, and later went to that house and attacked the two guys. Those guys didn't even give a police complaint! Even now and actually soon after the incident the attendance at other pubs in the city never went down. Ladies still go out, and unlike the fools on TV who even now say "the social fabric of the city has been irreparably torn", and aren't affected.--PremKudva^Talk 04:36, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes indeed, most of the attached churches fall outside the Mangalore city limits and some even outside the district. Its high time. We should removed the reference to the church attacks which does not paint the correct picture of both Mangalore and Mangaloreans. 117.226.156.176 (talk) 14:48, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

But many of the anti-Christian attacks did occur at Mangalore! Most of the ensuing protests and police crackdown occurred in Mangalore as well. The fact that people inter-mingle and in many cases stay in areas where the majority is of the other community does not mean that Mangalore in itself is not a communally volatile place. Tolerance of the majority is another issue entirely! These attacks are always caused by certain groups. They don't do these by popular consensus. The vast overwhelming majority in whose name these attacks are done, simply keep quiet and do nothing about it. Yes, it's fair to say that Mangalore is a vastly more tolerable place than, let's say, Phulbani in Kandhamal district, Orissa. These relatively minor attacks on Christians and Muslims happen every year, but at least they are not slaying minorities, forcibly converting them or driving them from their homes like they are in that particular district. All i want to mention is that Mangalore has had a history of communal problems in the recent past, not necessarily infer that the city is communal volatile hotbed. Although i would be justified in stating the latter, i will not do so because i would have to scout for an online source which states that. I don't think it will be too hard to find, but i am a bit lazy by nature. For the time being however, i will remove that sentence. I will mention all the communal events (The 1992 riots, Dec 98 – Jan 99 riots, 2006 riots, 2008 anti-Christian attacks, and 2009 Mangalore pub attack) next week, when i will be devoting my time to fixing certain issues with this article. Any help you would provide in fixing the dead links would be greatly appreciated by myself! Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 16:31, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

The protests and police crack down took place in Mangalore since the MC Community's peaceful protest on the first day turned violent. Unruly elements in the crowd stoned the police. The police had not come in riot gear since they were told it was a peaceful demo. Several un-helmeted cops were injured and hospitalised, couple of police vehicles were set on fire. The next day protesters at churches at the outskirts of the city ie at Kulshekar and Kuloor blocked roads and refused entry to the general public. I know this since a person who was supposed to meet me had to go back to Udupi when her bus was turned back at Kuloor. People who didn't have a choice had to walk into the city. The police who were smarting from the violence of the previous day did what they do best, they broke the blockage and lathi charged the protesters. Except that in the melee, the real culprits quietly ran away, and innocents who were only there to voice their protest were trashed and even imprisoned. It would have been worse, while passing Bejai church I saw the protesters had hurled stones and police vehicles were waiting. Except that some citizens whom I knew personally somehow managed to keep the police and the stone throwers at bay. This I've seen while passing by, and I actually called the two persons and said they did a good job almost risking their bones in the process.--PremKudva^Talk 04:32, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Virtually every member of the Christian and Muslim community in Karnataka hates the BJP government, and rightfully so! These crooks support the right-wing Hindu organizations and help in fomenting religious tensions. Attacks on Christians have risen ten-fold since they came into power in 2007. As of now, Karnataka has the highest rate of anti-Christian attacks in India, more than any other state. Many attacks on Christians in South Canara had occurred in the one and a half year preceding that. A lot of Christians were also angry at the events in Orissa, and so when these attacks did spontaneously occur at about the same time, many were enraged. Most Christians saw a government hand in the attacks and felt that they were being humiliated like this, because they were weak. They saw it as an attempt by certain groups representing the chauvinist mindset of many members of the Hindu majority, to show them that do not belong here and that they are at their mercy. So the violent reaction by some against the police should not come as a surprise! Although ethnically i belong to the MC community, i am an atheist. Still these occurrences pissed me off to a great extent and had i not been ill at home on 14 and 15 September 2008, i too would have taken part in the protests. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 13:35, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Joyson, it is easy to get carried away by emotions and point fingers at others Communities. Your statements seems to be based on hatred you have for the majority community. Since you have made these statements let me state a point for you to ponder. Please note that only a small number of people were involved in the said attacks and no one knows about their faith. Whether they were Hindus or Christians or Muslims. Can be anyone. Even if they were Hindus as you claim them to be, they constitute a very minuscule percentage of the Hindu population. Generalizing and saying Hindus were responsible and were in tacit agreement with attackers is absolutely wrong. Saying what you said, I am sorry to say - only shows your communal mindset. 117.227.79.136 (talk) 15:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for being off topic, but some irresponsible communal comments need to be corrected. 117.227.76.131 (talk) 15:14, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it must have been aliens from another dimension, or probably the Christians did it themselves and shifted the blame on those 'innocent' groups! While i personally don't care about whether you think i hate Hindus or not, i never stated any of what you have so claimed! Where have i said anything against Hindus at all? lol. Sorry for straying off topic myself! I shall cease continuing this discussion. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 15:49, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Joyson, and 117.227.76.131, I too am closing this discussion after adding this bit. It was the small but extreme faction in the MC community that made a bad situation worse. By making a violent protest just so the rest of the community didn't feel they were soft targets. While the churches were indeed attacked, and police action taken against the protesters for stopping traffic movement, you should realise that no member of the majority community went out in droves to attack the MC community even when the protests and stone throwing was going on. Many of my MC friends were upset that these elements ensured that the protests were violent, one of them mentioned to me "We aren't like that at all!"--PremKudva^Talk 04:09, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Your previous statements has made a veiled attack on the majority community, please refer to them. Your decision not to discuss the topic further is right and welcomed. This is no place to spew communal venom on Hindus and for that matter on any community. 117.226.203.166 (talk) 01:20, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Point them out yourself, or just shut up and get lost! Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 10:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Joyson, I never made any personal or abusive comment on you. Please refrain from making such comments. 117.226.219.24 (talk) 14:40, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments on links

I saw the request at GOCE to remove repeat-linking, so I ran the tool and removed all the ones it showed me. Someone may want to check how the removals affected the wording. I also noticed that there are a few dead links] in the article, that will be a bit harder to fix though. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:15, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I will try to have them fixed! If anyone else would help in replacing the dead links, that would be cool. Joyson Prabhu ^{Holla at me!} 12:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit warring by Hubballihuduga on Mangalore

User:Hubballihuduga your recent editing history on this page shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Even after a previous warning and a block, you continue to revert on this article. At no time have to made any mention on this page or on yours. None of the images that you have uploaded to commons and posted here are copyright free. --PremKudva^Talk 11:33, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 August 2013

Mangalore has more than 4 malls as shown in the page. Some of them are already built.

Please find some of them below.

1. Lotus Mall | 1,230,000 Sq. Ft. | http://www.lotusshoppingcentres.com/mangalore | 2014 2. Plama Mall | --- Sq. Ft. | http://www.plamadevelopers.com/plama_mall.html | 2014 3. Mischief Mall | --- Sq. Ft. | http://mischiefmegamall.com/aboutmall.html | 2011 4. Capital Asia Mall | 686,896 Sq. Ft. | http://capitamallsasia.com/mall-profiles/in/en/mangalore.html | 2013 5. Forum Mall | 759,954 Sq. Ft. |http://www.prestigeconstructions.com/retail-ongoing/retail-ongoing-mangalore.html%7C 2014

Please do the necessary changes.

Thank You

Gautham Pai (talk) 08:54, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Not done: This page is no longer protected. Subject to consensus, you should be able to edit it yourself. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:33, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

N Mention of malls are other shopping places is not done here as per existing convention. Eg there is no mention of any mall on the Bengaluru page.--PremKudva^Talk 04:59, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Laccadive Sea

As per Wikipedia the sea off the coast of Mangalore is not the Arabian Sea but the Laccadive Sea. According to the article the International Hydrographic Organization clearly says the eastern boundary of the sea is the west coasts of Sri Lanka and India. Accordingly the name of the sea requires to be changed from Arabian to Laccadive. Any discussion in this matter is invited.--PremKudva^Talk 03:57, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 18 October 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 18:49, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

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Mangalore → Mangaluru – Govt. of India on 17-Oct-2014 cleared renaming 12 cities and towns of the Karnataka state, eight years after receiving a proposal from Karnataka government, Mangalore as Mangaluru. varma (talk) 11:12, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose WP:COMMONNAME. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 19:02, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose obviously not the commonly recognised name in English, at least not yet. Also not the historical name, or the name in local languages, by the way. —innotata 22:53, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose as per Talk:Bangalore. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:14, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:57, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

- varma (talk) 11:12, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

References

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics#RFC on recent renaming of 11 Indian cities... use old or new names?

Discussion can be found here. Bgwhite (talk) 08:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Recent edits

Recent edits have attempted to add tourist fluff into the article. Please remember that this is an encyclopedic article, not a travel brochure, and constant attempts to PR-like content may jeopardize its featured status. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 17:56, 15 January 2015 (UTC)