Talk:List of video games notable for negative reception/Archive 18

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Cassette 50

Infamous bad game collection almost as bad as Action 52. It sold really well back in the day

The games, almost without exception written in BASIC, were deemed to be of poor quality. They have been described as "so bad it caused physical discomfort", "beyond awful", and "a piece of crap collection". The poor quality of the games inspired the annual Crap Games Competitions (for example the comp.sys.sinclair Crap Games Competition and the C64 Crap Game Compo) and a now-defunct site reviewing bad games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassette_50

It belong on the list 87.51.178.26 (talk) 16:52, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

This has a lack of sourcing to support it, at least compared to Action 52. Masem (t) 17:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

It is not as known today as Action 52, but this is still rather known. There are some legacy for this game as shown in the Wikipedia article. It also was promoted a lot in game magasines and it sold really well. It is not a tie in game but it is shovelware, but nobody used this term much in 1983. I will say that i think Cassette 50 deserves to be on the list far more than several other games on said list. This game was infamous when it came out back in the day. Today it is going to be hard to find sources on a game from 1983. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 19:33, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2023/jul/06/people-competing-to-make-the-worst-computer-games-possible

Here are the legacy of Cassette 50. This should clearly meet the list criteria now 87.51.178.26 (talk) 19:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

The sourcing in WP's article on Cassette 50 are very weak, and I would question its notability from those alone. Mind you, that likely can be improved, I just found this that would help there. But we need more sources like that. Masem (t) 19:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

(Just found that same source) Masem (t) 19:37, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Just in looking at sources, this is going to be tricky because this appears to be a very UK-centric product and did not get much traction in the US. And that likely means we're going to need to have more print sources to include for it. Masem (t) 19:42, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

It have the same issue as Hoshi Wo Miru Hito where it is very infamious in one place of the world (UK with Cassette 50 and Japan with Hoshi Wo Miru Hito) Both games also have the issue of being in a time where internet was not really a thing and sources being way harder to find. Also gaming reviews was not a big thing like it is today, today you can easily find reviews on Metacritic. But finding sources is much harder where magasines are the only way to find them. I will say that there are rather few games from the 80s on the list (only 4) so i think the critia for 80s games should be a bit lower just for the fact that video games reviews was a very small thing back then. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 20:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Which unfortunately is a limitation we can't make exceptions for under WP's sourcing requirements. At least for Cassette 50, a possible route are the print magazines of the time but that's going to require work to find those print sources. Masem (t) 20:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Both games does meet the general notablity guideline and have a Wikipedia article. I personally think the Inclusion Criteria for this list are rather vague and very harsh, since none of the games i suggested got listed. And i did put a good faith effort for arguements for inclutions. It dont help that i think there are games on this list far less known and noteable than those games i suggested. Also with far fewer reviews and/or far less legacy. I still dont understand how being in GWR Gamers Edition for M&M's Kart Racing dont meet the critia for inclution. But something like Stalin vs. Martians does. SimCity with the 64/100 Metacritic rating also dont belong on the list in my option, same with Star Wars Battlefront II. Those are controversial games, not bad games. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 20:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Both games does meet the general notablity guideline and have a Wikipedia article. I personally think the Inclusion Criteria for this list are rather vague and very harsh, since none of the games i suggested got listed. And i did put a good faith effort for arguements for inclutions. It dont help that i think there are games on this list far less known and noteable than those games i suggested. Also with far fewer reviews and/or far less legacy. I still dont understand how being in GWR Gamers Edition for M&M's Kart Racing dont meet the critia for inclution. But something like Stalin vs. Martians does. SimCity with the 64/100 Metacritic rating also dont belong on the list in my option, same with Star Wars Battlefront II. Those are controversial games, not bad games. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 20:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Friday the 13th (1989_video_game)

This game do have a well documented legacy. At least one LJN published game can be added to this list. This game also have very negative reviews, so i really dont see why it should not be added.

Friday the 13th was released in North America exclusively in February 1989, as part of LJN's focus on creating video games based on licenses. It is considered by some to be one of the worst games of all time. Game Informer lists the game among the most difficult horror games of all time. Michigan Daily's Matt Grandstaff called it a "poor offering" by LJN. GamePro listed it as the 10th worst video game based on a film, criticizing its "repetitive music score and amazingly frustrating gameplay". In 1997, Electronic Gaming Monthly ranked it the eighth worst console video game of all time. GamesRadar's Mikel Reparaz criticized its box, commenting that only LJN "would ever think to surround Jason Voorhees with neon-pastel vomit, thereby making him even more of an '80s relic than he already is." Writer Christopher Grant commented that the game was more terrible than the deaths of the campers in the first Friday the 13th film, calling it "craptacular". IGN's Levi Buchanan used this game as an example of LJN's poor development abilities. The book Vintage Games: An Insider Look at the History of Grand Theft Auto, Super Mario, and the Most Influential Games of All Time criticizes it for not being frightening, citing technical reasons for this. The authors of Nintendo Power rated Friday the 13th the sixth worst game ever made in the magazine's September 1997 issue. The writer stated "After playing a few minutes of this aardvark, you wanted Jason to slaughter all the counselors and then you. Anything so it would just end." Joystiq's James Ransom-Wiley noted it as a game that the staff "loved to hate." The Daily News of Los Angeles, however, noted it as a hit.

Legacy[edit] In June 2013, the National Entertainment Collectibles Association released an exclusive figurine of the video game-style Jason with the turquoise and purple color palette to go along with their other Nintendo-esque horror figure, a video game-style Freddy Krueger based on LJN's A Nightmare on Elm Street game. In 2017, after developer IllFonic released Friday the 13th: The Game, a "Retro Jason" skin based on Jason from the 1989 game was added by developers in a video game patch to apologize to fans for issues the game experienced when initially released.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_the_13th_(1989_video_game) 87.51.178.26 (talk) 12:23, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Should the criteria for early 80s and 70s games be lower?

As said above stuff like having low review scores; a game with an aggregate review score below 50/100, as determined by at least 10 critic reviews is generally considered eligible but not guaranteed a spot on the list. Is impossible to meet with those really old games that predates the internet era. Like when you say that The sourcing in WP's article on Cassette 50 are very weak, and I would question its notability from those alone then it is because there finding sources on early 80s and 70s games are very hard with rare expections like Pong, Space Invaders, Asteroids and such. There are only four games from the 80s on that list, something i found really weird with the number of bad NES games and Atari games there are. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 20:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Key is notable for negative reception. There are probably a lot of stinkers from that era, but at the same time, there were a lot of stinkers from that era to a point that few stood out as terribly bad (knowing what caused the crash of '83, and Nintendo's heavy-hand in the NES era is why post '85 the rules of what was bad changed significantly). I see no reason to change the criteria, just that the sources are not likely to be online works and would need to be found through print. Masem (t) 20:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I just looked at the list again and there are ONE (yes just ONE) NES game on the list (two if you count Action 52, but that are unlicensed) Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is a tie in game and showelware and while i personally think this deserves to be on the list, every other games i listed here should also be added. Back to the Future NES is known for being very bad and the people who made the movie also bashed it. There are some Bible games and a lot of bad NES games that AVGN and many others reviewed. I dont think AVGN is notable as a reliable source for this, but i dont think Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde should be alone or is super special compared to other bad NES games. There are ZERO (yes ZERO) LJN games on this list. Thats just wrong IMO. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 20:46, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

The number of reviews are my main issue. You are just not getting 10 reviews on a game that predates the internet age. It should be like 3 or 4 print reviews. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 22:03, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

We're not just looking at the number of reviews, we're looking for coverage well beyond the release that identifies games as notably known to be bad. This list used to be a lot larger but a few years ago we scrubbed out games that just got low scores, looking for this longer-term notoriety, rather than just low scores. Masem (t) 22:12, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

To turn it around, I wonder if more recent games should have higher standards because of the need for 'long term notoriety'. If you look at the 80s and 90s they for sure include stuff that is likely to be on anyone's list of the worst ever if they know about them, but getting into the 2000s it feels like this really tapers off to more 'in the moment' stuff. People talk about ET and Night Trap and Superman 64, do people really ever talk about Mortal Kombat Advance, Lula 3d and Power Gig? Granted I'm just one person but I've never seen it. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 06:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

There is good reasoning to consider some of those entries, there are likely games added because in the short term we may have thought they were going to have strong reasoning to keep here, but since have little notability this way Masem (t) 13:18, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Proposed removal of Star Wars Battlefront II and SimCity

Both games seems way more suited for the list of controversial video games instead of this one (and BFII are already in that list)

A title is ineligible for inclusion based on user response if it received an otherwise positive response from critics, as it might be more indicative of a controversy surrounding a portion of the title or its background, or one "manufactured" by its community, rather than the quality of the title as a whole. Titles with controversies unrelated to their overall quality may be eligible for inclusion on List of controversial video games instead,

SimCity had server issues on launch. But otherwise it had mixed reviews with a Metacritic score of 64/100. Do a game with some flaws and server issues on launch really belong here? Reviews are far too positive for this page in my opinion

Star Wars Battlefront II used to be a controversial game. No reviewer bashed the gameplay, but they did bash the lootboxes. This means it belongs on controversial games list like something like Diablo Immortal (where both games already are) Metacritic for BFII (PS4) 68/100 (XONE) 66/100 (PC) 65/100

BFII have a great overall quality. It dont belong on this list in my opinion. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 15:52, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

SimCity caused the closure of Maxis and the end of the SimCity franchise, in addition to Paradox greenlighting Cities: Skylines. That is 100% the type of fallout that remains attached to the game. BFII was a major point where the issue of loot boxes was raised, so while also controversial, that also was why the game is seen negatively. These absolutely are appropriate for this list. That's why we just don't use review scores as the metric, this is not the list of worst-reviewed video games. Masem (t) 20:59, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

SimCity is still alive with the Mobile Game BuildIT. The game still gets updates and have a big playerbase. Also from Maxis

On May 6, 2013, it was announced that Maxis would be developing The Sims 4, and the game was released internationally in September 2014. Maxis also developed The Sims Mobile, until development was transferred to Firemonkeys in February 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxis

So SimCity did not cause the closure of Maxis. Many online games such as Diablo 3 and several WoW expansions had bad launches, this do not mean their overall quality are bad.

BFII was a major point where the issue of loot boxes was raised, so while also controversial, that also was why the game is seen negatively.

BFII have seen positivly for the gameplay. There are a reason that Diablo Immortal or Genshin Impact is not on this page. As it says above Titles with controversies unrelated to their overall quality may be eligible for inclusion on List of controversial video games instead

Nobody says the overall quality in BFII, Genshin Impact, Diablo Immortal, Diablo 3 with the RMAH (that one is deservely so on the list with controversial games) are bad for its quality. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 21:49, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Mobile games are pretty much discounted by the overall video game community. While there is a SimCity mobile title, the series is considered dead - its failure led EA to close down the SimCity part of Maxis (the rest are developing the Sims). That's very much well known and why SimCity 2013 is on the list.

It is not just because BFII has loot boxes, it came out and had problems at the time that loot boxes were starting to be questioned to the point that it was considered a major problem with how loot boxes were implemented, to the point that Disney stepped in to force them to reconfigure the game's economy before full release. Again, a very well known impact. Masem (t) 01:06, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Again: here's what happened in the wake of SimCity 2013's release: [1] Masem (t) 01:08, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Mobile games are pretty much discounted by the overall video game community is a lie. From Genshin Impact being insanely popular even on PC, from mobile emulators like Bluestacks being so popular that Google made their own native mobile games on PC thingy, to mobile games earning way more money than PC games, to a lot of games being crossplatform between mobile and PC. Just because you dont like it dont make it true. And BuildIt is the most played SimCity game ever, so ignoring it because you dont like it is just dumb.

As of October 2021, the application has been downloaded over 100 million times on the Google Play Store. It ranks number four all-time in simulation games downloads operating on Android.[citation needed]

In 2018, according to EA Mobile, SimCity: BuildIt became the most-played SimCity game ever. It stayed in the top 10 in U.S. sim and strategy games on iOS platforms, in the top 100 for U.S. games overall and in the top 150 games globally.

Still gets updates to this day. This makes SimCity as a brand not even close to dead. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 06:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

The headline is wrong. From that article

"Today we are consolidating Maxis IP development to our studios in Redwood Shores, Salt Lake City, Helsinki and Melbourne locations as we close our Emeryville location. Maxis continues to support and develop new experiences for current Sims and SimCity players, while expanding our franchises to new platforms and developing new cross-platform IP.

Consolidating is NOT the same as closing 87.51.178.26 (talk) 07:29, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Also from above

A title is ineligible for inclusion based on user response if it received an otherwise positive response from critics, as it might be more indicative of a controversy surrounding a portion of the title or its background, or one "manufactured" by its community, rather than the quality of the title as a whole

This are exactly the case with both SimCity and BFII. And Maxis still exist

New studios under the Maxis brand (2019–present)[edit]

EA announced two new studios that would bear the Maxis name over the following years – Maxis Texas in 2019 and Maxis Europe in 2021. The announcements only came in the form of job postings on the EA careers website. The Texas team was set up at the existing EA offices in Austin to work on a new IP, while the Europe studio was created specifically to support The Sims 4. Unlike the Texas office, Maxis Europe is a "distributed development team", composed of staff working remotely.

The move came amid a number of job postings at the Redwood Shores studio for a new The Sims title, as well as EA CEO Andrew Wilson hinting at an online multiplayer-focused iteration of the franchise. However, in 2021, EA reaffirmed their commitment to long term support for The Sims 4, for "ten years, fifteen years, or more", citing a "shift across the entire games industry to support and nurture our communities long-term".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxis 87.51.178.26 (talk) 21:57, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

I looked and I'm not seeing an otherwise positive response from critics for either of those titles, especially around the time of its release. - Aoidh (talk) 03:42, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Did you see any negative response for the gameplay in BFII? Or only for the loot boxes? SimCity got rather mixed reviews, but not negative with a metascore of 64. I wont call that negative at all. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 06:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Seems like the negative reviews of SimCity are mostly focusing on the bad launch rather than the overall quality of the game.

Upon release, SimCity was met with mostly mixed reviews, many of which were downgraded after reviewers received reports of server problems. It received mixed to negative reception soon after, with GameRankings and Metacritic assigning scores of 63.82% and 64/100, respectively.

The issues surrounding the launch affected critics' opinions and reviews of the game. Eurogamer, CNET, and IGN delayed their reviews due to being unable to connect to the game servers, and Polygon, which had reviewed the game before the launch, later dropped its 9.5/10 score down to 8/10, then later dropping it again to 4/10 in response to both the issues, and EA's decision to disable gameplay features. Josh Derocher of Destructoid gave a rating of 4/10, saying that despite his enjoyment of the game, "the online dependency, forced multiplayer, and DRM ruin it." Other critics such as Rock, Paper, Shotgun also noted the launch issues with the always-online nature of the game, servers, and cloud save systems. According to Rock, Paper, Shotgun, because a server connection is required even for single-player games, "the game, by its very design, is hideously broken." Leif Johnson writing for GameTrailers gave the game an 8.0/10 stating, "Aside from some issues with its online requirements, bugs, and restrictions on city size, it's still a satisfying and addicting simulator that will grant dozens of hours of entertainment with one well-designed city alone." CNET UK reported on March 6 that review aggregator Metacritic accumulated a user score of 2.0/10 and several critics reported that the product on Amazon.com had an average rating of 1/5 stars. Amazon customers and the press reported problems with path-finding and artificial intelligence, broken economic simulation, multiplayer aspect not working as advertised, and iconic features missing compared to previous installments of the game. 87.51.178.26 (talk) 06:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Sonic P-06 in Sonic 2006

It may be worthwhile to include a mention of the fan effort to develop an improvement on Sonic 2006 in Sonic P-06, since it garnered significant media attention at its release, but I can't figure a good way to integrate it. Several other titles like Plumbers Don't Wear Ties mention contemporary re-releases, but there aren't any mentions of fan remakes (e.g., the one that was made based on Bubsy 3D). Reconrabbit 00:32, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League

I have heard nothing but bad things about this game, from the game's problematic HUD, to its online nature, so can you add it? 108.35.187.110 (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Hearing bad things about the game isn't enough to be on a list of games cited widely by sources to be the worst of all time. There has to be evidence that the negative reception is notable. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 03:00, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Payday 3

With its mediocre reception and today's news that the Starbeeze CEO is out, it may be appropriate to consider Payday 3 for inclusion. — Masem (t) 18:12, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I somewhat agree on that Xstronomy007 (talk) 03:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)