Talk:List of vaporware

Vaporware Page Restoration

By definition of the term vaporware as software/products that are never released nor canceled I think we can assume that regardless of sources actually stating that something is vaporware that if a source states it is in a state of suspension it can be considered for listing on this page. Previous edits by Richard BB removed sections of sourced material without discussion.

Proposal to restore missing content as per previous versions of the article.

• Restore missing Hardware - Action Gamemaster
• Restore missing Games/Software
  • Starcraft Ghost
  • Elite 4
  • Anarchy Online Graphic Enhancement
  • Microsoft Train Simulator
  • The Last Guardian

Please discuss before editing the page.

All of the material that I removed either was not sourced, or the source did not explicitly state that the products in question were vaporware. Please note that it is not our job to interpret sources, draw conclusions from them, or make our own assumptions about what is considered vaporware. This amounts to WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. We can only list something as vaporware if the citation actively supports this claim. Therefore, we cannot assume anything regardless of what sources say; this is not how Wikipedia works. — Richard BB 10:10, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree with OP. In requiring the sources to actually say "this is vaporware" rather than requiring them to prove the definition listed at the top of the page, you have destroyed the entire content of the article. Is a tiny buzzfeed-style blurb from Wired (for Half-Life 2: Episode Three) a better source than 6 years of delays posted directly from the game director of Anarchy Online in relation to the engine? I don't think it is. By it's very definition a product will almost never be definitively labelled as vaporware by the company involved - the HL2 listing is not a result of in-depth research by a journalism department but simply a writer deciding that the product meets the criteria.

A delay doesn't instantly make something vaporware, and allowing unsourced material here opens the floodgates to people venting their anger at something being delayed. The long and short of it is that Wikipedia operates by way of reliable sources, not original research, the latter being peoples' own interpretation. The company involved doesn't need to label something as vaporware, but someone reliable does. — Richard BB 13:38, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

All material must be sourced per Wikipedia policy. Period. End of Story. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 21:53, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

In the wiki page for Starcraft Ghost the source is provided, Wired magazine featured it in an article about Vapor Ware. Link: https://www.wired.com/2006/02/vaporware-better-late-than-never/?currentPage=3

RfC: Is the current requirement for sources reasonable?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Must "vaporware" items be specifically labelled as such by a source or can they merely meet the definition? 206.53.92.57 (talk) 07:09, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

They must specifically be labelled as such. Merely meeting the definition is not for us to interpret: that's original research. The source needs to explicitly state, "this is vaporware". — Richard BB 13:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, this requirement is reasonable. Without it, we'd have to resort to original research or personal opinion. Sources must explicitly state that a member belongs to a list. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:21, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
• The requirement seems entirely reasonable to me. Editors should not be assigning items to the list based on their own personal interpretation of the definition. -- TOW  04:02, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
• Of course, this is what is expected per policy.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 03:29, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

The requirement is not only reasonable, it is policy. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 21:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Xycraft notability

It seems to me like the Xycraft addition is unreasonable. It's a non-notable mod with no Wikipedia page, and the source it cites is a different wiki project that doesn't seem suitable to be considered as a notable source.

I would recommend removing Xycraft from the page. An incredible number of Minecraft mods have been "publicly announced" on forums, and many of them have failed to deliver. I wouldn't consider these vaporware by any means, as they're not commercial software. Zeus Kabob (talk) 10:28, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Xycraft may be considered an exception given its highlighting on Forgecraft and prominence among the Forge community. That said I agree that it seems unreasonable to only list XyCraft (EE3 would seem to be another good example) Mt xing (talk) 20:45, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Grimoire

This list is incomplete without "Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar" which has been vaporware for over 20 years, "Limbo of the Lost" that took 15 years, and "Return to Dark Castle", which was in development for 12 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:388:43C:150:0:0:1:33 (talk) 21:08, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Grimore is now out http://store.steampowered.com/app/650670/Grimoire__Heralds_of_the_Winged_Exemplar/ so a add to Surfaced vaporware might be a better fit Nbisbo (talk) 02:19, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of vaporware. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141226140921/http://www.gonintendo.com/s/241731-rodea-the-sky-soldier-prope-updates-their-page-initial-wii-u-run-contains-wii-version to http://www.gonintendo.com/s/241731-rodea-the-sky-soldier-prope-updates-their-page-initial-wii-u-run-contains-wii-version
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3174577

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:18, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Phantasy Star Online 2

This was announced back in 2012 for the west, but has never been released. Should it be added to the page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.79.63.181 (talk) 11:24, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

AirPower

Why is this listed as vaporware? Apple ran into technical problems with its development and cancelled the project. I see no references calling this product vaporware, and per our lead, it's not vaporware unless it was "never released, nor ever cancelled." Meters (talk) 05:03, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Black Mesa was released

Under Surfaced Vaporware -> Video games, the game/mod is discussed as if it isn't finished, which it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gosig 2 (talk • contribs) 05:52, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Star Citizen

Are we sure this is correct to list here? Sounds like the disgruntled personal opinion of somebody editing the page. The game is being worked on every single day, so while it has indeed neither been released nor cancel, it is simply taking longer. That's all. It has in no way "evaporated" which would be the requirement to call something vaporware. That may still happen but at this point it hasn't. 37.230.46.75 (talk) 10:32, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

It's backed up by reliable sources -- which is the basis for inclusion. If it gets published we can move it to "surface vaporware". — Czello 10:46, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Don't you think this is a bit stupid to not/do class something as vaporware when vaporware itself is not an actual technical word but a slang created to describe a phenomenon.

The simple slang definition of the word is game announced to the public but has not come to manufacture.

Public announcement being the key thing here.

Star citizen announced before it even had any creation process in place as it was reliant on crowndfund resources so was instant vaporware before development really began and why it might be in dev hell or in feature creep dev hell, all they have really shown is alpha builds or concepts so it is still vaporware now. Both IS an is not vaporware before and during development.

It supersedes the definition:

By definition it IS vaporware as it has not been manufactured, but also by its own definition of being a product sold to the public before and during development it is not vaporware because while it has not been manufactured as a product, it has been sold as a product and turned a profit none the less.

Point is trying to only class something as vaporware because X "reputable sources claims it is" is illogical in of itself because vaporware itself is not a phenomenon that anyone can say is or is not happening the word is a slang for a phenomenon and anyone claiming to be reputable in the matter is not reputable.

Not even a dev of the game can say it is vaporware until it becomes vaporware, and how can we tell if it is not vaporware, only when it releases...

Its a connundrum

I suppose what you are trying to get to is we need someone else not ourselves to call something vaporware, but that just leads to anyone making a twitter post or post of gameFAQs being a reputable source!

Point I am ultimately trying to make here is what I posted in a new section:

Until they are actually released they remain in the vaporware subspace. Only after reports of development hell is a game in development hall, so a game is technically either announced and in progress, announced but in hell (when reported in dev hell) announced then cancelled or announced and vaporware, which normally is [claimed] after X amount of time with no info from [the devs about] development is released 2.29.59.72 (talk) 16:34, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

To expand on what Czello said, items are only kept on this list after being described as vapourware by reputable publications (see WP:RS). In Star Citizen's case, two sources have described it as such. They may well be disgruntled, but it's not our job as editors to make these kind of judgements, else nothing would ever get put on here, as almost everything has its defenders.

Also, the fact that it is continually being developed in no way disqualifies it; both Duke Nukem Forever and Half-Life 2: Episode Three were, and the former was even eventually released. - Novov T C 10:54, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Xenix

Xenix most certainly does not meet the current definition of vaporware and should be removed. The NYT citation which seems to be used as justification for its inclusion is disingenuous, as the quoted article says "Thus, in this earliest use [a Microsoft engineer referring to Xenix], vaporware referred simply to a project that had lost steam." Xenix most definitely was worked on and released. At one time, Tandy's version of Xenix (initially ported and provided to them by Microsoft) was the largest installed UNIX base on the planet. Disclaimer: I worked at Tandy during this time and directly worked on their Xenix. Rocket-Fueled (talk) 22:33, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Silksong

At this point it might as well be listed here. It been announced in 2019 with not a single word since it appearance on the Nintendo Direct. Every Indie World causes the game to trend for the day with people upset it didn't appear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:800:C400:8AB0:ED5E:A2D0:1AC9:DBFF (talk) 14:34, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

To include a new item we'd need a reliable source which explicitly describes it as vaporware. If you can provide one we can add it. — Czello 17:34, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Make a more comprehensive list of Vaporware Video games

I was explaining to someone about vaporware and I was explaining the PREY 2 game, which never actually ever got cancelled so came to this page to see if I could find info on it but found none. I cannot think of every game off the top of my head that are currently not on the list but I am sure there would be much more.

It may not be as important for documentation as say game releases and may be a lot more difficult to keep track of with sources as well as editing the page but as for game information preservation I think it should be at least tried to be implemented, possibly with tabled charts like other pages would use. I also think video game vaporware should be separated in a different page to other tech vaporware.

Just for examples: Pearl abyss DokeV atm is vaporware but there is no info on it on this page. So is Capcoms Pragmata, Cygames project awakening, Game science Black myth wukong. Again no info on any of these games on this page.

Pragmata is delayed continuously, DokeV has had only tech and trailers shown, project awakening only a proof of concept shown and BMW only tech demo gameplay shown, it has all the marks of vaporware.

Still until they are actually released they remain in the vaporware subspace. Only after reports of development hell is a game in development hall, so a game is technically either announced and in progress, announced but in hell (when reported in dev hell) announced then cancelled or announced and vaporware, which normally is after X amount of time with no info from development is released. 2.29.59.72 (talk) 16:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Additions

I am writing to suggest the following additions to this page:

VAPORWARE:

Oddity: Beginning as a fan-made sequel to Mother 3, Oddity was initially announced as "Mother 4" on a Starmen.net page in 2008. A trailer was released promising a winter 2014 release, before pushing back to June of 2016. In 2017, it was announced the game would rebrand in light of various DMCA takedown request issued to other fan made products using Nintendo's intellectual properties. In 2020, a trailer for the game, now titled "Oddity" was released, though no updates regarding the game have surfaced since December of the same year.

Friday Night Funkin': launched as a browser game in 2020, the game was eventually crowdfunded for 2 million dollars. Many fans have noted the game's overly-expansive scope, leading many to create memes centering on the game's extensive development time.

SURFACED VAPORWARE

Omori: A Kickstarter for the game launched on June 5th of 2014, and the game was infamous during its development for a lack of communication with backers, and was infamous for its many controversies surrounding refunding and developer transparency. It was commonly asserted by many that the game was vaporware prior to it's 2020 launch.

Super Meat Boy Forever: The game was teased in 2011 after the release of Super Meat Boy, and a prototype was shown at various gaming conventions in 2014. The game would eventually be released in 2020: having been reworked from a mobile spinoff to a proper sequel. Crockpure (talk) 21:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

We'd need sources that explicitly call them vaporware to include these — Czello ^(music) 21:46, 28 February 2024 (UTC)