Talk:List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, August 2014

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Possible Items[edit]

This was originally added to the article by User:Jax 0677, I've moved it to the talk page.

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/man-stricken-with-als-suspected-of-killing-2-women?

Zell Faze (talk) 19:37, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My vote on "recently retired" is a limited yes. We should have a definition of "recently" and I think not more than three months, and we should try to cite their retirement date. I included the suicide of Tommy Hudson in the August list; he retired a couple of weeks prior to his death. Pdx97217 (talk) 20:49, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have not read the citation, the officer was recently retired? I don't have a preference one way or the other on recently retired really. I'd be alright with seeing them included so long as the article mentions that they just retired I think. Zell Faze (talk) 10:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Inclusion borders always get tested. Recently retired Dane County Sheriff's Deputy Andrew Steele killed his wife and sister-in-law on August 22. He retired in May 2014. In or out? Pdx97217 (talk) 17:04, 31 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Personally I'd leave that one out. It seems like its unrelated to his previous profession as a law enforcement officer and its about six months after his retirement. Zell Faze (talk) 23:12, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Two or three months max. August had three suicides, one a couple of hours after resigning and two others a couple of days. Clearly reverberations from service work. The causal combination of resignation=action is important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pdx97217 (talk • contribs)

What about prison / jail guards?

UPDATE: EOCI inmate shot from yard tower, killed - August 29, 2014 http://www.eastoregonian.com/free/inmate-shot-killed-by-eoci-officer/article_2d2c1ad0-2fa6-11e4-a0f4-001a4bcf887a.html

Pdx97217 (talk) 20:38, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think that these fall under the definition of LEO, see the discussion below. If anyone else disagrees though, I definitely think its a discussion worth having. Zell Faze (talk) 10:12, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Executions? One in August 2014. Pdx97217 (talk) 16:22, 31 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'd also leave executions out. I don't think people reading this article would think that it contains state sponsored executions. Zell Faze (talk) 23:12, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed.Pdx97217 (talk) 20:13, 2 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Added recent info to brown shooting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.251.165.64 (talk) 18:35, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to List Format[edit]

I think this August page is now the most comprehensive listing of police involved deaths available in the US. Thanks to everyone for adding, subtracting and editing.

I'd like to suggest adding a column for race to the September 2014 column. Discuss?

If the police officers involved are named, please list those names.

County deputies, including in-jail deputies, parole officers, and cadets should be included in the definition of "law enforcement officers."

Pdx97217 (talk) 20:09, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't think that we should call out the race of the victim. In the vast majority of cases the race of the victim simply is not notable. Almost no news outlet that we reference takes the time to call out the race, so we probably should not either. I do think that it is a good idea to list out of the names of the officers, but we need to tread lightly and to make sure that we don't run awry of WP:BLPPRIVACY. According to Law enforcement officer, the definition includes: "police officers, corrections officers, customs officers, state troopers, special agents, immigration officers, court bailiffs, probation officers, parole officers, arson investigators, auxiliary officers, and sheriffs, marshals, and their deputies". We can define it a different way if we'd like, but I think we'd need a pretty good reason to do so. I believe that the definition of LEO used elsewhere on Wikipedia pretty much includes everything that you suggested though.
I too am really pleased to see just how much effort has gone into Augusts lists. I've been helping out on this series for several months now and I've never seen the sort of activity on these lists that I've seen the past few weeks. Its been hard to keep up with reviewing all of the edits. I would agree that this is likely the most comprehensive list on the web at the moment. Thank you to everyone who has helped out so far. I think it is especially worth calling out the following folks for their amazing contributions: @Pdx97217:, @Cyanidethistles:, 98.207.226.90 (talk) / 96.226.109.26 (talk) (assuming they are the same), and 32.218.45.6 (talk) / 32.218.41.40 (talk) (assuming they are the same). Zell Faze (talk) 20:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the mention! Cyanidethistles (talk) 20:56, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
On the note of effort again (not to get the discussion off topic), there are currently 76 entries on this list. This is definitely a record holder for lists so far. Wow. We used to keep a count of the number of items on each list and then sum them up for each year, but consensus was that it was original research because it implied to the reader we have an exhaustive list. I mention that only because I used to keep the counts correct and nothing even comes close to this one in size. Hopefully Septembers list is just a through (and lets also hope a bit smaller too, for the sake of both officers and those killed alike). Zell Faze (talk) 22:23, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Race is no less notable than age or location, and it's highly relevant because of the worldwide debate about US police brutality as an outgrowth of racism. Since this list is well curated, if it includes race, it might show the actual first evidence yea or nay. My guess is we'll only be able to discern from online photos so 40% or so will be "unknown" but the remainder could be 70%+ people of color. Pdx97217 (talk) 14:46, 27 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Race is a complicated thing and I think describing it based on photos falls under the Wikipedia:No original research policy. I think that in the vast majority of cases race is not notable enough to warrant mention in these listings, see WP:WEIGHT (which describes how we should only discuss things that reliable sources considered important, and only as much as they considered it to be). Zell Faze (talk) 13:56, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the Wikipedia:No original research policy reference. So we cite only if the referenced article mentions race. Good. (I did the race stats based on citations and online photos - it's about 30% white, 30% black, 30% hispanic, 10% unidentified for "off-duty" deaths.) Pdx97217 (talk) 20:54, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Correct. You are welcome to track those stats on a user page though if you'd like (make sure to not imply that the page is an article though; the template {{user page}} may help with that). I'd be interested to see them if you did set that up. Zell Faze (talk) 10:03, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Pdx97217: This is some useful background also on why I am watching this series of articles like a hawk. I thought you might be interested in reading it and it seems relevant to this discussion. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States, 2013 Zell Faze (talk) 10:19, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External Link[edit]

I removed the external link from the article a little bit ago. I don't think it falls under WP:ELYES (its not the website of the subject, its not a copy of the work, and it doesn't "contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article"). I also suspect this link is WP:ELNO #4 "Links mainly intended to promote a website". It is neat that the website mentioned this Wikipedia article though. Perhaps that would be something to put in the News and Notes section of the WP:Signpost. You could mention something there. Zell Faze (talk) 22:23, 4 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment[edit]

As of September 17, 2014 this page now contains 108 persons killed by law enforcement officers, including suicides. I believe this is the most complete list of it's type of a duration of time in public. The making of this list, just August, is described in "Someone Has to Do It - No One's Been Reliably Tracking Police Shootings. Here's a Start." Pdx97217 (talk) 03:24, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

which means jack.... This "article" is not an article and wikipedea is not a currents events journal for you favorite political movement of the day... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.57.23.82 (talk) 23:14, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Title of article[edit]

I think the titles of this and the other articles in this category are biased.

A neutral title would be:

List of fatalities involving police

No need to imply anything other than the facts.

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